The 80-92 degree heat gradient, where did it originate from?

I was curious if anyone knew off hand. I mean I know there are those on the forum that have even deviated from that range, but in general. Where did we aquire the cookie cutter 80-92 degree heat gradient from? Did someone measure African temps and figure this was good, or was it random trial and error and someone found this worked well? Was it in an old book with no source (be surprised how many truths originate from this)? what made this the most recommended standard?

LOL .... NO MORE COFFEE FOR YOU!!! :rofl:

As off the wall as it may be .... I'm interested!

Actually if you look at the average highs and lows for Ghana Africa you see that it very rarely gets up to 90 degrees for an average (though the hottest part of the day can hit 100, snakes are usually underground at that time) . I actually shoot for the high 80's as a hot spot and the lows are whatever the ambiet temperature in the room is (my herp room typically is in the mid to high 70's but can go as low as the high 60's in the late spring or early fall) I've always thought that 92 degrees for a hot spot was too hot.

I think the temperatures that you're talking about were derived from the high and low temperatures inside of a termite mound (which is a favorite denning spot for these snakes)

Of course you would ask this while I'm travelling over the weekend and away from my library. :) Hopefully I don't have to necro-bump this thread on Monday when I'm back in town!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I think the temperatures that you're talking about were derived from the high and low temperatures inside of a termite mound (which is a favorite denning spot for these snakes)

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Termite mounds hardly vary and there wouldn't be a temp gradient inside of it either. Termites are actually really sensitive insects, even humidity wise. Knowing this is part what sparks my question.

Basking temps can get really high, even with lower ambient temps. Like if it's 85 outside and the sun is shining, you could probably get a 125 degree temp on a rock easily. Which is why some animals need a really hot basking spot. But BPs aren't really basking animals. So I don't know either, I guess is what I'm saying, lol.

I found this site, guy put a bunch of temperature buttons all over a termite mound. Pretty interesting:
http://www.esf.edu/efb/turner/termit...eNestTemp.html

I'm guessing probably started out by reading meteorological charts for average temps from the country/area they come from and then using that as a reference. Then it probably just got adjusted by people as time went on from their own animals as just like humans, some like it warmer and some like it cooler. I personally am like MarkS and I give Dottie a hot spot of around 88F and the cool side is around 78F. Dottie just does her own thing regulating from there. It's the same with boas, a lot of people say give 90F hot spot but both my gals wont touch a 90F hot spot. They like their hot side around 86-88F. Anything hotter and they wont go near it and they end up spending 90% of the time on their 80F cool sides anyways lol.

Well say for example I look up Ghana, I find the average high is 80 and average low is 70 over the year. So imo that doesn't make much sense with the standard. From what I could gather, dead termite mounds average around 86 (they generally have fungus growing that increases humidity and temp) . Which falls more in line with our standard temps.

Where did we get the idea of a gradient? Supposedly they are almost never out during the day, so where did the idea of the hot spot come from?

No idea there. I also wondered about the whole belly heat deal too as most of these snake are crepuscular and I wouldn't imagine there are many places to find belly heat in a termite mound not to mention, BPs aren't known to sun themselves or sit out in the open on a warm rock.

Maybe the gradient is from termite mounds to abandoned rodent dens? I mean a termite mound would nice and toasty warm while a rodent burrow underground would be very cool.

This is only an opinion but I believe the gradient is more due to their physiology. They need these gradients to thermoregulate just as humans do internally. If you give them just a single temp they are stuck regardless of what internal temp is better for a certain situation, by giving them a gradient you allow them to choose what they need. Depending how far they are below ground they can definitely find temperature gradients below ground. I assume the original idea was to have the mean temp of a tank close to what they would encounter in the wild and have a few degrees above and below to allow for thermoregulation. At least that is what I would do. I definitely think people have tinkered with it over the years especially when you talk about breeding drops and such.