BP Euthanasia (Feeding Normal Spinoff)

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Originally Posted by lunasjy

It's not me who wants to feed off normals... just so you know. I got into breeding pretty much the same time as a friend of mine did. We are both good friends with another breeder who sells his as a packaged deal or whole sale to pet stores. My friend sees this and doesn't have the same opportunity so he is afraid that he wont be able to sell the normals. I am not sure how true this is. I know personally I only have one normal and probably wont buy more as a personal choice.

I am just going to let him do what he wants to do. As for myself, I will not feed normals off to my other snakes. I do have a king snake but he eats mice just fine.

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If you guys know a guy that sells wholesale, why not ask him to buy yours? He's obviously getting paid for the snakes, you can just get half or even less, the snakes are gone, no work for you, and you get that little bit of money to put back into feeders.

I have thought about getting something that would eat any hatchlings that didn't make it, just because it seems like there's no easy and humane way of putting a snake down. It seems like expensive trip to the vet or smashing their head with a hammer (I'm not even close to killing rats with my hands, let alone smashing something's head). Freezing and co2 is just torture for them so I wouldn't do that either. Having them fed off naturally just seems like the most humane thing to do.

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Originally Posted by bks2100

co2 is just torture for them

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I respectfully disagree. And while feeding a snake to a snake eater may be natural, I have a hard time rating that action as "more humane" than CO2 dispatch.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

I'd worry one of my babies would end up starving at a big box store. I'd rather give it away to someone I know will take proper care of it.

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I'd worry about that no matter what. I mean even if a big name in the industry wants my snake, how do you know they'll treat it well? Even if I gave a snake away to a friend or someone else as a purely pet gift, who knows what they'll do with it in 1, 2, 5 years. They might give it away to someone who doesn't care, they might stop caring themselves, or maybe they'll get tired of it and just release it when it can't survive in that location.

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Originally Posted by Slim

I respectfully disagree. And while feeding a snake to a snake eater may be natural, I have a hard time rating that action as "more humane" than CO2 dispatch.

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Have you used co2 on a snake before? I can't find anyone that has because they all say that snakes don't react to the co2 the same way, they use way less oxygen but have a similar reaction to too much co2. If you give rodents too much co2 they hyperventilate and suffer while they die. This doesn't really last long for the rat, but it takes much longer on the snake, hence the inhumane.

I wish that co2 was the most humane way so that there's a simple and easy way to end a snakes suffering, but the fact that no one does it tells me something. Especially when the two ways it seems like everyone does it is either expensive (vet injection, not to mention the horror stories of how this goes) or it's gruesome (destruction of the brain), why would anyone do either of those if they could use the co2 chamber they have for rodents?

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Originally Posted by bks2100

Have you used co2 on a snake before? I can't find anyone that has because they all say that snakes don't react to the co2 the same way, they use way less oxygen but have a similar reaction to too much co2. If you give rodents too much co2 they hyperventilate and suffer while they die. This doesn't really last long for the rat, but it takes much longer on the snake, hence the inhumane.

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I don't want to go too far off topic, but agreed, I've always read CO2 is not a humane way to euthanize a reptile. As you noted, vet (usually heart stick) or blunt force head trama are the fastest and generally humane ways to go. I recently found this article (link below) which discusses freezing, freezing on it's own was a widely used practice but not generally humane without first using the fridge, you do not ever want to put a reptile directly into the freezer. At least it's another option if you can't do the first two. I've done all three at one point over the years, it's never an easy thing no matter what method.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...cienceDaily%29

another good source of info on this topic:
https://www.avma.org/KB/Policies/Doc...euthanasia.pdf

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Originally Posted by bks2100

Have you used co2 on a snake before?

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No I have not. Never had a reason to.

Have you been eaten alive by a snake before?

Thank you for the thread split :gj:

Best Mods in the business!

AVMA guidelines for humane euthanasia

Reptiles have their very own section - S7.3.

Pretty sure skiploader had (or posted in?) in a similar thread and actually sited information for why CO2 is not an efficient or humane way to euthanize a snake which contained links with sources. I'd have to go digging for it and I'm at work rn so that may be a bit. Long story short: snakes and other reptiles do not metabolize CO2 the same as mammals, they do not quietly slip into unconsciousness and pass within a few minutes. It's for the same reason that heads remain conscious and able to bite even hours after decapitation. Their brains do not require the same oxygen levels to continue functioning and so the animal does not loose consciousness but is awake and alive for the whole process. Last I checked, pithing where in the brain matter is completely destroyed was still the fastest, most humane way to dispatch a snake, but one that takes some practice to do skillfully and effectively so as to not cause the animal to suffer.

Destruction of the brain would be the most humane for a unskilled owner. Yes, it's "brutal" but it should also be instant.

CO2 is humane for rodents, but as stated above, doesn't work properly with snakes.

Vet euthanasia ensures it cannot be used for food purposes to anything, so it's a waste and you'd have the high vet bill, and need a good reptile vet who knows how also.

I see lots of people who decry the brutal method because they are squeamish and don't want to admit that it's the fastest method for "at home". But also, we should all be aware that if the wrong person saw it, or knew about it, the owner could come under fire for inhumane killing of a pet, or even be arrested for animal abuse, regardless of the reason the snake was being put down.

There's a lot of details to look at overall and of course, there's rarely a perfect solution to a situation none of us would want to be in. As far as me personally, I would rather discuss it and think about it BEFORE I have need of a solution. Otherwise if the situation arises, there might not be a lot of time and the snake could be suffering while I dither over it.

Edit: I just had the slightly amusing thought that if someone kills a pet snake with a hammer, they're a inhuman monster abusing a pet.... but if someone kills a wild snake with a hammer, they're a hero saving the local kids from a vicious wild creature. Can't win sometimes!

Unless the snake is large and strong, a blow to the head does not take much skill.

A big snake flailing around could be a problem. I've seen Viper Keeper use a tube for some procedures (not euthanasia).