Het PieBald - Markings?

I was wondering if anyone can tell me what "Het Piebald - Markings" are -
Also does anyone have a picture of the markings?
Thanks! :eek:

I may be mistaken, but I believe there is no such thing as het piebald markings. Piebald is a recessive trait, so it only shows up in a homozygous animal. The heterozygous animal would show no signs so it would look like a normal.

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Originally Posted by Leon

I was wondering if anyone can tell me what "Het Piebald - Markings" are -
Also does anyone have a picture of the markings?
Thanks! :eek:

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i 've heard that too. i personally never worked with pieds.....not yet anyway.......maybe peter kahl willhave somethind on his site. who knows?

found this link might be worth keeping an eye on

http://www.simonereptiles.com/piedhetmarkers

cool find!

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Originally Posted by Leon

I was wondering if anyone can tell me what "Het Piebald - Markings" are -

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Many people look for "markers" in possible het animals of all morphs to try and better their odds of actually getting a het.

Some people believe that the het pied markers are a way of bettering your odds when selecting 50% and 66% possible het pieds.

A couple of things that people don't tell you are;

1. not every het pied has the marker, as a matter of fact, many don't.
2. animals that do have the marker may end up not being het pieds. many many normals carry the same type of marker.
3. no one has actually done any type of research to determine the reliability of the marker pieds. there are "good feels" and "guesses", but no one can quote you any kind of statistic about the reliabilty of markers.

Markers or not, if you breed a het pied to non pied or non het pied, each baby has a 50% chance of being a het.

With the number of completely normal hatchlings that are produced/imported each year with the marker, be careful of people that are trying to sell you possible het pieds based on the presence of "a marker". Always check the persons reputation and references and make sure your buying a quality animal!

Hope this helps.

-adam

Good point about checking the references. One site to research a potential seller is http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...php?forumid=13 I think you will need to sign up before you will get the search option but I don't think you have to pay unless you want to post messages.

The quotes I've seen about percentages of het pieds that are visibly different are one posted directly by Corey Woods and another 2nd hand by a customer of Peter Kahl's as to what Peter supposedly told him. These quotes indicated that 70 - 80% of the hets had these markers. I don't know how scientifically they arrived at these numbers or in the case of the 2nd hand report if that is even what Peter actually said but both of these breeders have at least a fair amount of pied experience (a considerable understatement with Mr. Kahl).

I believe that there should be many many more imported ch het pieds than imported homozygous pieds but even so the rate of true het pied imports is probably low enough and the rate of good non het look-alikes high enough to make the marker not very accurate with imported animals (or any animals not known to be from a pied line). I've not yet heard of a well markered import being proven not het pied but the general assumption that they aren't het pied just because they have the marker is probably a pretty good guess. And of course there are also the 20 - 30% of the time that the marker is not seen in for sure hets and the chance that whatever is causing the marker in presumed non hets could cause it in a possible het clutch making a markered non het.

So, the marker isn't a perfect system but with the high reported rate of it in cb known het pieds there sure seems to be a strong tendency for het pieds to have the belly mark and it can be a useful tool when selecting from among possible hets from a reliable source. It greatly complicates marketing of possible hets and doesn't follow the nice and clean textbook differentiation between recessive and co-dominant but we don't get to pick how the genetics actually work, only try and figure them out.

Interesting. Is there a possibility that the markers are just a co-dom gene that are following the Pie gene?

Can anyone tell me how the "markerings" look -
And maybe share a picture of them?

:confused:

I bought this animal as a 100% het pied male and it was produced by Pete Kahl It was not advertised as having the " marker trait " but it does indeed
http://www.chondrosunlimited.com/Pho...etpiedtail.JPG