Vaniila, Fire, or Normal

If any of you had read my earlier clutch threads you had seen that I had hatched a clutch that was sired by a 1.0 Fire to a 0.1 Vanilla. Here is the first picture I took back when they first shed after hatching.

[IMG]http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...psppl0kzns.jpg[/IMG]

My initial thoughts were that I had 0.2 (Vanilla or Fires) and 1.1 Normal (bottom 2 snakes). I sold what I believed to be a 1.0 Normal already so I don't have it for comparison. Now that they have a little size on them and have shed a second time, I'm starting to wonder if what I thought was Normal is actually Vanilla and the two that were the obvious morphs are Fire. Here are some pictures for comparison albeit the quality of the photos leaves a bit to be desired. The first pic is of the three remaining animals from the clutch with the suspected Normal/Vanilla in the forefront. In this shot it still looks as if it may be a Normal compared to the other two but you can see it is quite Bronze in appearance.

[IMG]http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8iekuzbk.jpg[/IMG]

Here is a shot of it side by side (left) with one of the obvious morphs.

[IMG]http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7cx19epy.jpg[/IMG]

Now here is one side by side with a definitive Normal (right) as it came from a YB to YB clutch and is definitely not YB.

[IMG]http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...psaopvnxlz.jpg[/IMG]

Those of you who have worked with Fires and Vanillas both, please chime in and let me know your thoughts as to whether or not the snake in question is Vanilla or Normal.

If you believe it is Normal, then are the two obvious morphs Fire or Vanilla? I appreciate any help the experts can provide.

Hope someone can come in to help you!

Sent from my SM-S975L using Tapatalk

I see one vanilla (top left), two fires one nice one on top and one not so nice one on bottom (right), and one normal (bottom left).

If we look at the second picture where they are a little bigger, the one on the top left looks like a vanilla, on the top right a fire and the bottom a normal.

In that pic there is a vanilla a fire and normal. vanillas and fires have different pattern sequences start to look around online at pics you'll see what I'm talking about.

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Originally Posted by Asherah

Hope someone can come in to help you!

Sent from my SM-S975L using Tapatalk

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Thank you for your support.

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Originally Posted by Kibbleswhites

I see one vanilla (top left), two fires one nice one on top and one not so nice one on bottom (right), and one normal (bottom left).

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Thanks. I think the Vanilla on the left, the Fire on the right is correct. I think the lower animals are both Normal but the one on the right definitely has a very even bronzish look about it.

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Originally Posted by BCS

If we look at the second picture where they are a little bigger, the one on the top left looks like a vanilla, on the top right a fire and the bottom a normal.

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Thank you for the input. I am inclined to agree.

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Originally Posted by Emilio

In that pic there is a vanilla a fire and normal. vanillas and fires have different pattern sequences start to look around online at pics you'll see what I'm talking about.

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Thanks Emilio. I have been looking at every Vanilla or Fire hatchling I can find on Kingsnake and Fauna but I am still not sure I recognize the patterning difference you're talking about. However, I do see where Fires appear to have more blushing overall and perhaps the Vanilla's have a slightly more granite appearance. Is that what you're speaking of?

The new pictures seem to confirm what I originally thought. Top left: Vanilla, Top right: Fire, Bottom: Normal & Normal. I would say the likelihood of the bottom two being anything more than normals is not good at all. Vanillas heads get lighter and lighter with each shed so keep an eye out for that.

Well, I just wanted to give a quick update on this. I have now let the female in question go through a couple sheds and it is clear that the snake everyone thought was a normal, including myself, is in fact a Vanilla. Here is an updated picture and it is obvious. This is the same snake that is at bottom right in the picture with the four snakes, and is the bottom snake in the picture that has three snakes. The transformation is pretty drastic.

[IMG]http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...psjbzffxln.jpg[/IMG]

This also means the two brighter animals were both Fires, which is what I sold them as. This has really been a cool learning experience for me. I hope this thread has been helpful for those members out that that may be thinking about pairing Fires and Vanillas to produce Vanilla Creams. Hang on to anything that is in question and give it some time.

WoW...... and she is a looker too. :gj::gj:

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Originally Posted by rlditmars

… I hope this thread has been helpful for those members out that that may be thinking about pairing Fires and Vanillas to produce Vanilla Creams. Hang on to anything that is in question and give it some time.

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Sound advice, no need for a hurry up sale of an “I’m not sure what it is” snake. The buyer can be sure what they’re getting. Though there’s nothing wrong with buying a “I’m not sure what it is” snake as long as the buyer is aware of this. Plus the breeder gets to enjoy watching the truth get revealed. Nice going rlditmars. Nonetheless, I’m a lazy guy so I’m going super fire to super vanilla for my vanilla creams. Probably not until the 17/18 season. The sv girl’s a 2012, but only 1100 grams. One of those funny snakes that eats as much as everyone else, but just doesn’t grow at the same rate.