The Live vs F/T debate

I really don't get this LIVE feeding malarkey . I've kept loads of snakes from Garters to Burms and I've never had to resort to feeding LIVE.
Even the fussiest Royal Python will eat warmed up d/f when they're ready . I currently have a matching , non related pair of Albino Royals who will only eat if it's warmed up and dangled in front of their face .. It sometimes takes three or four attempts but so what - just put the time and effort in and don't take the easy route of feeding LIVE . It's cruel to the rodents and risky for your snakes !!

I read a post the other day where this woman said she hated feeding live due to the harrowing sound of the rat pup crying in pain for 25 minutes whilst it was slowly eaten alive !!!
She said it sounded like a crying baby !!!

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I really don't get this LIVE feeding malarkey . I've kept loads of snakes from Garters to Burms and I've never had to resort to feeding LIVE.
Even the fussiest Royal Python will eat warmed up d/f when they're ready . I currently have a matching , non related pair of Albino Royals who will only eat if it's warmed up and dangled in front of their face .. It sometimes takes three or four attempts but so what - just put the time and effort in and don't take the easy route of feeding LIVE . It's cruel to the rodents and risky for your snakes !!

I read a post the other day where this woman said she hated feeding live due to the harrowing sound of the rat pup crying in pain for 25 minutes whilst it was slowly eaten alive !!!
She said it sounded like a crying baby !!!

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Feeding live is not particularly cruel or dangerous. Contrary to your expert experience, not every snake will simply eat what you want them to when they're ready. If they would, we'd have plenty of hippy dippy folks feeding their snakes tofu nuggets every week.

There's nothing wrong with feeding live. It's a good way to try to kickstart a snake that isn't eating.

If you aren't sure what size to get, get the adult mouse.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

Live should be a last resort. I have yet to meet a Royal that cannot be converted to F/T and I have seen a few F/T eaters that refuse to deal with a live rat. (I have rescued out close to a 1000 royals now) and every now and again one comes back because it will not eat. In the three cases now the F/T eater was offered live and refused it. The three cases all ate with no problems once back in the facility and offered F/T again.

My point is Royals often imprint on food. An adult mouser has to be struggled with to convert it to rats and often will revert back to mice given a chance.

I would offer what you have always offered not try something new. A regularly eating snake often will not eat new things. Routine is a trait of these animals.

There is a caveat here, if the you know the snake was started on mice a mouse scented rat may help, if that fails a mouse may work but you might get stuck feeding mice and mousers often are under weight because it just isn't big enough when they are still in a growth spirt, they will fill out sooner or later but IMO it is a poor food for a growing snake and a inappropriate food for an adult.

Live feeders often can be a pain to switch, it isn't a huge problem feeding live as long as it is supervised, but that takes time an extra 10 or 15 min per snake and if you care for any number that is potentially a lot of time. It is such a fluke for a snake to be injured by dead prey it is almost funny. It however is not uncommon for a snake to be hurt by a rodent defending its life.

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At last a voice of reason and sensibility !

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Originally Posted by John1982

Feeding live is not particularly cruel or dangerous. Contrary to your expert experience, not every snake will simply eat what you want them to when they're ready. If they would, we'd have plenty of hippy dippy folks feeding their snakes tofu nuggets every week.

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I have never EVER claimed to be an expert on anything .. I do have 17 snakes currently and I've owned over 70 over the years and I've NEVER had lower myself to feeding LIVE !

I currently have Corns , Kings , Garter snakes , a Dwarf Hypo Burmese python , three Royal pythons , A Rhino Ratsnake , a Bamboo Red Mountain Kingsnake and a 7' adult Snow Boa ( bred by John Berry ) .
Never lost a snake or have ANY die ...

Guess I'm doing something right !

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

At last a voice of reason and sensibility !

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There is nothing unreasonable or insensible about feeding live.

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Originally Posted by 200xth

There is nothing unreasonable or insensible about feeding live.

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I rather think that the slowly dying rat pup crying like a baby for 25 minutes easily disproves that train of thought ....

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I rather think that the slowly dying rat pup crying like a baby for 25 minutes easily disproves that train of thought ....

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Well that just shows you're lack of experience and ignorance when it comes to live feeding :gj:

Funny how people feeding live (and I mean experienced in doing so not just one live prey a month) are a lot more open minded when it come to f/t and wouldn't use words such as never or lower themselves to....

As for the OP if you do feed live make sure you are prepared to do so for a while if your snake does not switch back.

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

I rather think that the slowly dying rat pup crying like a baby for 25 minutes easily disproves that train of thought ....

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You can think whatever you want, there is nothing unreasonable or lacking sense in live feeding.

No one cares that you feed frozen, but quit trying to act like you're some sort of morally superior person because of it. Not a single thing you feed your snake was not alive at one point, yet you act like you're somehow so much better than anyone else.

I am fairly new to the game but I picked up a 2 year old that was always fed live since it hatched. To make sure that he transition well and kept eating I still feed him live like he's used to. I do it with caution and the proper tools(pencil and tongs) in case I have to get in there and rescue my snake. I think that as long as you are careful and respectful of the prey there is nothing morally wrong in feeding live. I have never seen or heard of a feeder crying for 25 min from any of my herp friends who have been keeping snakes for may years. Its usually a quick squeak and its over there is no more air in its lungs and it cant inhale to "cry" because its being constricted. I am also a hunter who has a problem with people who are upset by it saying its wrong to kill an animal wile they eat a burger or steak, cows don't grow on trees. One animal must die in order for another to live, those have been the rules of the game since the beginning of time.