Introducing me and my spiders

Hi, I am not completely new to snakes but I haven't had them since I was a kid and so much has changed since then (back then, heat rocks were the primary sources of heat). I now have a 4 month female butter spider and a 3 month old male lesser bee. I was originally just going to have the one female but this last show I got attached to this male lesser and ended up bring in him home. Currently they are in tanks but this weekend I am going to try building my first rack. I'm going to use PVC board with a UTH setup. Will post my end product if it turns out nicely. Anyway, I'm completely new to morphs. I got these two cause they appealed to me but I'd like to play around with genes, more of for hobby rather then real profit. However, I've just read somewhere that spiders shouldn't be bred to spiders and that was kinda what I was planning to do.. I've also read that it's only a problem if they are single gene spiders. Are butter/lesser spiders single or double gene? Thank you, here are my babies
0.1 butter spider Nina
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...8652E5A7EF.jpg

1.0 lesser bee Alexander
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...D8D23DECD4.jpg

Lesser Bees and Butter Bees are especially the same snake....butter/lesser have been "dubbed" different lines of the same morph. They are both double gene animals with the butter bee "butter spider" being a combination of butter and spider, and the same with the lesser bee being that of the lesser and spider genes.

Spider to spider breeding have proved to show a high mortality rate for some reason, including those of combo spiders....it still has the spider gene so it will still do the same thing, most of them die in the egg or don't make it past a couple of days out of it...

There is much debate whether the spider gene is really a co dominant mutation or dominant and since none of these so called "super" spiders have lived to prove that they can produce sole spider clutches they are marked as dominant...however someone produced what they believe is a super spider that is still kicking after a couple months, so hopefully that can be the key.


Spiders also tend to have what people refer to as "wobble" when they get excited....usually when stressed or on feeding day. Some are more noticeable than others, but they usually all have it...it's just about how noticeable it is.

Hope this isn't to confusing and helps.

It does help! I did know that they are sometimes considered the same, lessers and butters that is but many still say they are different. I like to say they are different cause every butter spider I've seen seems to have noticeably more contrast then the lessers. However I have seen people say the opposite. It's nice to know that they are double gened so that would mean that only 25% of their offspring would get doubled up spider genes and therefor not survive correct? I was under the impression that it would be 100% lethal.
Also, I did do plenty of research on the wobble. When I got my female, I was never warned of the wobble until a few days later one of my BP breeder buddies told me. The way he said it kinda scared me and I thought my snake was going to need help eating for the rest of its life or something. Of course, after reading a few threads on here, I learned it's not really a huge problem.

I just have to say Alexander is one handsome guy! Love those colours

Spider to spider breeding is a weird one.

Nobody has reported an unusual number of dud eggs or dead hatchlings but no homozygous spider has ever been proven conclusively.

There is a video NERD put out a while back talking about all the lethal combos in breeding and Spider x Spider was one of them.

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Originally Posted by MizTwisted

I just have to say Alexander is one handsome guy! Love those colours

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Thank you. He's my little stud!

I did watch the video but I've been researching the crap out of this and it sounds like it'd only be a big problem with single gened spiders. Mine being double gene would mean they could still produce healthily babies but (if I did the square correctly) only about 25 % of their offspring would be super spider (lethal) and the rest would be normals, normal spiders, butter bees, and butters. I think I will probably do one experimental breeding between this two but down the line. I don't want my females first few clutches having issues so I'm planning on either getting some regular butter/lessers, g stripes or pinstripes to breed them with for now. One day id like to try to creat a clown then make some butter bee clowns

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Originally Posted by kevinb

There is a video NERD put out a while back talking about all the lethal combos in breeding and Spider x Spider was one of them.

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Actually if you watch it again he said it wasn't one of them. ;)

Gorgeous Spiders there!

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Originally Posted by C2tcardin

Gorgeous Spiders there!

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Thank you! I'm glad these two are my first morphs. I may be picking up a male clown this weekend but that's still up in the air. I decided to go ahead and build my own snake rack. I used pvc board for the rack its self and for the tubs I used the nice Hefty brand tubs because they have locks on them so secure the lid. That way if i ever have to transport all the snakes they can all stay in their own tubs. I haven't installed any heating yet, for that I plan on ordering heat tape and wiring from The Bean Farm. Hopefully all will be down and snakes will be moved in this weekend :)

i plan on cutting the legs down some since they are making it a little wobbly
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...ds/image-2.jpg