Melanistic Influence?

So, my first clutch of the year was a melanistic, granite, looking normal female bred to a male Mystic and a male Jigsaw Blast. I got 5 eggs and 1 slug. All 5 eggs hatched. There was 1 male normal, but he has since been sold. The remaining 4 are a female Mystic, a male Pastave (Pastel Mojave), and 2 male Jigsaws (Mojave Pintsrtipe). The female Mystic, male Pastave, and 1 male Jigsaw all seem to have a darker color to them and also a pixilated look to their pattern. I would love in put from you guys. I am trying to determine if the mother's pattern is a gene, or just a line breedable trait. I know this is just the first season of her producing, and I plan on holding back the female Mystic and the male Pastave for sure (he'll breed back to mom when he is the correct age and size), and may hold back the darker Jigsaw, but I want to keep my collection small, so don't want to hold back too many.

Mom
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2014-06-26.jpg

Male Mystic
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2014-06-26.jpg

Male Jigsaw Blast
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2014-06-26.jpg

Whole Clutch
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2014-06-26.jpg

The Jigsaws (this pictures shows the difference pretty well)
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2014-06-26.jpg

Female Mystic
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2014-06-26.jpg

Male Jigsaw 1 (possible influence from mom)
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2014-06-26.jpg

Male Jigsaw 2
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2014-06-26.jpg

Male Pastave (possible influence from mom)
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2014-06-26.jpg
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2014-06-26.jpg

Nice babies. Personally, I like the 2nd jigsaw better. But I just like busy patterns.

I think if mom is carrying anything genetic, it might be a granite like thing, and that might explain the interesting pattern on the pastave. If that's true... who knows which of those 2 jigsaws might be a granite jigsaw? I sure don't. I really think at this point you don't have enough to know what, if anything, you are dealing with.

I'll share my first thought with you so you can laugh at me. :oops: I was thinking that pastave looked like it might have mystic influence... until my brain engaged enough to realize we know what mystic & mojave do together... and that would have meant contributions from both fathers in the same snake which can't happen anyway. I really shouldn't be that asleep at almost 2 in the afternoon....

I like the whole clutch, but the darker color and pixilation/striping/distortion of the pattern are really standing out to me. If I get some time, I plan on taking more pictures on some different colored backgrounds.

Some new pictures with a black background.

Whole Clutch (minus the male normal)
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2014-06-28.jpg


The 2 Jigsaws next to each other
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2014-06-28.jpg


Female Mystic, sorry it is slightly out of focus
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2014-06-28.jpg


Male Jigsaw 1
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2014-06-28.jpg


Male Jigsaw 2
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2014-06-28.jpg
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2014-06-28.jpg


Male Pastave
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2014-06-28.jpg
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2014-06-28.jpg


I've noticed on the male Jigsaw 2 and the male Pastave, that they both have a lot of striping on the sides of the bodies near the head. I wonder is that is the mother's influence?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slowcountry Balls

Male Jigsaw 2
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2014-06-28.jpg
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...2014-06-28.jpg

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These pics really show off the striping he's got going on his neck, which is quite attractive. I wonder if, through a lot of selective breeding, one could get a jigsaw that was just stripes like this on the whole body? That would be a cool snake.

I am beginning to lean towards it being a gene. My reasons for this conclusion is that of the 6 eggs laid (5 good eggs and 1 slug) 2, maybe 3 of the hatchlings seem to be exhibiting an influence from their mother's appearance, which is the odds you would expect to see for an incomplete dominate gene. If it was more of a line bred trait, I would expect all of the hatchlings to show an influence (not to the same degree of course, but some darknes and pattern distortion in all of the hatchlings). Also, the amount of influence shown on the pattern of the male Jigsaw 2 and the male Pastave seems to be more drastic than I would expect from a line bred trait. Of course, future breeding is the only way to know more with any degree of certianty.

Hmm. *goes back and looks at pic of mom* But I don't see a neck stripe on her? :confusd:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kc261

Hmm. *goes back and looks at pic of mom* But I don't see a neck stripe on her? :confusd:

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No, she doesn't have the neck stripe like the male Jigsaw 2, nor the male Pastave. But if you look more closely at "mom", you'll notice that the first alien head on her neck actually looks like 2 or 3 alien heads "smeared" together. I think that the male Jigsaw 2 and the male Pastave are showing that smeared alien head look to a greater degree (possibly the impact of the Mojave gene, as that gene is common to both the Pastave and Jigsaw). Future breeding is going to be the only sure way to get some definitive answers. I am just making some observations and theories based on those observations, in hopes of refining my holdback choices.

Here is a comparison picture of the 2014 Clutch 1 female Mystic to a 2014 Clutch 7 female Mystic. They share the same father, but clutch 1 was the Mystic male to a melanistic female, while clutch 7 was the Mystic male to a Pastel Enchi female. Clutch 7 had 2 female Mystics, but I picked the darker of the 2 for this comparison shot. You can take a look at the results of clutch 7 at this thread (http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...Enchi-x-Mystic) or in the 2014 Clutch 7 album on our Facebook page (see my signature for the link).
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...14-08-09_2.jpg

Here is an updated picture of the male Pastel Mojave that I think has more to him:
http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...14-11-20_5.jpg