After a F/T Refusal...

...what are your next steps?

Generally, how long do you attempt to dance a f/t rat for each BP before stopping?

After you stop putting on the puppet show, what do you do, i.e. do you leave it in with them (for how long?) or throw it out and try again next week?

I'm going through a period right now with a couple of my females that show great incredible interest on feeding day right up until the point when a rat is available. I do the dance for them, but they turn from acting interested to uninterested pretty quickly (sometimes to the point of almost being afraid of the zombie rat that came by for dinner). As soon as I take the rat out, they are right back to "begging" again, but won't actually take anything even if I do try again later (after I cycle through everyone else's meals).

FWIW - no one who is refusing has lost any weight thus far. I've also dropped down to offering smalls vs mediums weekly for these girls (both around 1000g). I'm sure it's just them self-regulating, and I'll continue to offer food weekly whether they take it or not. I'm just looking for some tips from those who also feed f/t and don't enjoy throwing feeders away after refusals. I waste more good money that way...

Thank you for your help in advance!

Best regards,
Eric

I have had the same issue with some of mine. With your situation do not offer them food weekly. Try every two weeks or so. It will not harm them. Because if you offer food often and they refuse it becomes a learned behavior. I just bought an female in march who would not eat. It acted just like yours is doing with you. So I ignored it, even when it looked hungry. I feed the rest of my collection however I did not offer it food. Finally she ate a live unweaned rat pup for me. Look up Justin Kabakiah web site as he has a good article on this issue. As that is where I got my help from. Sorry Justin I have just killed your last name :oops:. However if you do a google search his info will pop up.

I offer the prey and if its not taken it is either fed to another or if its the first time thawed I will refreeze it. I usually don't try longer than 5 minutes and would suggest not going longer than 10. You may want to try leaving the prey near the snake and leave the room, some are shy eaters.

Make sure that when you present the prey it is hot. A mouse has a body temp around 100 so if the heat signature is not at least that the snake may not recognize the mouse as prey. I thaw in water and before feeding I drain the water and get fresh hot tap water. After a few minutes of getting as warm as possible I then feed trouble eaters first so they get it while plenty warm.

When I have a refusal I do not offer again until the next feeding day. Trying to often can cause the snake more stress and add to the problem.

To prevent waste only thaw feeders for the number of snakes that are sure to eat. However, offer the trouble feeders first. If they refuse feed the prey to the others but if they eat then just thaw a few more for the others so all are fed. This way you don't get left with extra thawed feeders. If I do refreeze a feeder I offer it to somebody that is sure to eat and offer a fresh one to the trouble eater so that I can again refreeze if needed.

KMG said it best. My tips: Make sure the room is dark. Don't get the rat to close to their head during the "dance". And make sure it is hot. I have had balls do what you described. I always start with the picky eater first. If she backs off I will throw it back in some HOT water while I feed the others then come back to her. 50% of the time I didn't have it warm enough for her. I also never feed all of my snakes on the same day. This way if she doesn't eat I can throw it to another snake and just wait a week on her. If she does then I will feed the the other snake the next day. Each of mine are different though. One I just hold it real still and he calmly comes up and grabs it. Another I have to move the rat around the cage. One I can hang by the tail, while another I have to lay down and pull around. Eventually I will work them all into accepting a hanging Still rat with no dance. Sorry for the long winded answer.

More Heat. If she doesn't eat wait two weeks. Make sure the room is dark and you are out of line of sight.

Thank you very much for your suggestions, everyone! Great tips on what you guys do with "leftovers".

It is sounding like I need to change my thawing method in order to get better results. Currently, I'm thawing at room temperature over the course of a few hours and then, once thawed, hitting them with a hairdryer until they get up to temperature (at least 100 like suggested). That is what has worked for everyone over the past year when they were young and growing quickly. If I thawed in water, I could be more efficient and not thaw out as many at a time now that they are slowing a bit (maybe only do half, see who eats, and go from there).

Another thing I'm hoping will help is moving my collection into racks in a couple of months (love AP, but have to be patient with their lead time). With them in T8s right now, it is tough for me to stay hidden while sliding the door open to their glass front displays. Racks will also give me the option to do a few of the things Justin suggested in his feeding article.

I'm glad to hear that others have gone through the same!

I usually thaw mine by placing them in a ziplock bag and soaking the bag in hot water (hot enough to thaw fast, but not cook). A medium rat usually thaws in about an hour, and is nice and hot. I use the tongs and "do the dance" with it for about 5 minutes, just enough to get their attention. If they don't strike during this time, I will lay it 2-3 inches away from their hide and leave the room for an hour. One of mine won't even eat if I'm in the room for some reason, so I usually do this for him and it's gone when I come back. If at that point they don't eat it, I'll refreeze and offer it again next week. Usually they'll take it at that point (I had someone once tell me that because the freezing/thawing breaks down the tissue, it's stronger smelling and more appetizing after the second thaw). If they don't, I'll throw it out.