Looking For Some Answers...

Before posting, be aware that there will be no debate on the subject at hand. I'm not asking for opinions here; I'm asking for the simple sciences behind it.
Does anyone know the sex of the parenting species of the ball python hybrids? I'm curious in analyzing how they effected the offspring. If both sexes were used in different pairings, (eg. if both Female Woma x Male Ball specimens have been made, as well as Male Woma x Female Ball specimens) can someone provide the pics of them?
Thanks in advance.

I'm pretty sure it wouldn't make a difference.

It could in theory...

With my mouse breeding, certain genes are more strongly expressed if they are donated from one parent over another. It would have to be seen from a very large sampling, though...you probably wouldn't see marked differences in just 2 litters

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Originally Posted by Mephibosheth1

It could in theory...

With my mouse breeding, certain genes are more strongly expressed if they are donated from one parent over another. It would have to be seen from a very large sampling, though...you probably wouldn't see marked differences in just 2 litters

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If it does then i bet its based on the quality of the gene in the parent that passes it down, not which parent passes it down. Just my .02cents

It is known to make a difference (while i doubt its completely figured out) only for banana / coral glow.

in banana / coral glow it makes a difference. Aaaaand its complicated.

when it comes to all other genes, it should never make a difference. To be disproven by counter-example, but i havent seen anything other than banana / coral glow where it would be relevant.

I wouldnt try to figure it out at the cost of breaking the rule to never breed a male to a female that is (monetarily or genetically) less valuable than the female.

Aaand, you ask for just opinions, no discussion.... That wont work. We can try, but as soon as several people post their opinions and between these opinions contradictions appear, and if the thread then slows down, discussions will start. You can get your opinions but dont even attempt to stop or prevent discussions between these opinions, its a forum, it will happen.

It may matter when breeding a much larger species to a ball. Kind of like with Ligers and Tigons. Ligers carry maternally-inherited genes from the tiger that cause an adult size that can be larger than the tiger itself. Tigons have lioness mothers and are much smaller. The same is seen in some large breeds of dogs.

That is all mammals of course. There is limited information on ball python hybrids and the only concrete answers would be from people who have tried your theory first hand.

Well I wouldn't breed a male burmese to a female ball python. :cool:

Make the female the larger snake and/or the one that lays the most eggs per clutch on average to increase the already slim odds.

The snakes produced should be the same though if all factors are equal.

Oh and don't do it - hybrids suck. :P

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Originally Posted by dr del

Make the female the larger snake and/or the one that lays the most eggs per clutch on average to increase the already slim odds. :P

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I have heard the same, the female is the larger of the two species. Makes sense the eggs have to go somewhere and like dr del said burm eggs will not fit in a ball python.

so....


Can we agree that when only breeding ball pythons to ball pythons, you could reverse the genders of the parents and it would not make a difference, except for banana / coral glow?

hybrids are actually not on topic here since the original thread is only about BPs, but while its started.... I think hybrids are not a good idea, except to maybe move specific genes across the species barrier. Which would easily be a 30-year project. In rat snakes / corn snakes / etc it is being done i think. But it seems to be hard or near impossible to do with pythons. There are hybrids, but to move a gene across the species barrier, you need to make a hybrid, then breed it to ball python, breed it to ball python again, and again, and you need to get to a point where its 90%+ ball python and 10% some other python species, and then (if it carries a new visual gene along with it) prove it out in ball pythons. And because they are still hybrids people may simply reject it. Theoretically it is a way to move individual genes across the species barrier, but it really would take many decades and its risky and you produce a ton of 50% and 25% and 12.5% and 6.25% hybrids. Its crazy, really.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

I'm pretty sure it wouldn't make a difference.

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It sure does. Anaconda hybrids differ depending on who's who in the pairing. It peaked in my curiosity since, a few years back, I saw a documentary about human development, and, although it was about people, it said as a general rule, offspring inherit more from their father. How true this really is, I'm not sure. In reptiles, this may less so be true. However, it definitely did get me thinking.
Now, keeping that in mind, I've browsed through some pics of hybrid wall pythons and, although people have said they lack heat pits, there were a couple of facial shots and some of the snakes- not all- did actually have a few heat pits.
So I was wondering, what was done differently in their choice of who played mommy and who played daddy?

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Originally Posted by dr del

Oh and don't do it - hybrids suck. :P

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Don't care.

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

Aaand, you ask for just opinions, no discussion.... That wont work. We can try, but as soon as several people post their opinions and between these opinions contradictions appear, and if the thread then slows down, discussions will start. You can get your opinions but dont even attempt to stop or prevent discussions between these opinions, its a forum, it will happen.

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I want to avoid the discussion of "Don't breed hybrids; they're evil!" just because that's one person's opinion, which can be disagreed with, and it isn't productive with the information I'm trying to find. I have my own opinion on the subject, and I don't need input on it. It simply isn't productive, and, if anything, can cause some big ole' flame war.
Now, discussion of whether the phenotype of a super-ball differs because the blood is, say, the father this time and not the mother, would be quite interesting and be very informative.

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

hybrids are actually not on topic here since the original thread is only about BPs, but while its started.... I think hybrids are not a good idea, except to maybe move specific genes across the species barrier. Which would easily be a 30-year project. In rat snakes / corn snakes / etc it is being done i think. But it seems to be hard or near impossible to do with pythons. There are hybrids, but to move a gene across the species barrier, you need to make a hybrid, then breed it to ball python, breed it to ball python again, and again, and you need to get to a point where its 90%+ ball python and 10% some other python species, and then (if it carries a new visual gene along with it) prove it out in ball pythons. And because they are still hybrids people may simply reject it. Theoretically it is a way to move individual genes across the species barrier, but it really would take many decades and its risky and you produce a ton of 50% and 25% and 12.5% and 6.25% hybrids. Its crazy, really.

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Please re-read my first post.
Now, "moving genes across the species barrier" would not work because all the offspring would be non-pure descendants of a different species line. And this is exactly why everybody craps their pants when somebody posts about hybrids.