KomaCEL

I see in the forums a lot of people are using PVCX to build racks. A lot use the brand name KomaTEX.

The local supplier I have has Komatex only in very thin sheets which is not sufficient hardness for me as I plan on making two adult tubs per row. They have something else called KomaCEL which is made by the same company that makes Komatex, but it is harder and meant for outdoor use. They have it only in white and in 13mm thickness. They also told me that the new versions of KomaTEX now have additives to make them softer because people using it for signage were complaining that they were too stiff. From my knowledge, plasticized PVC contains phthalates and is not good for health of snake nor human. I also notice that the new brochure for the Komatex new no longer references it as being PVC-U (U stands for unplasticized). So for me, it is either the 13mm KomaCEL or melamine for my new rack.

I have asked around many forums no one has heard of KomaCEL. I have seen it referenced here in old posts, so someone is using it here. I would like to ask, specific to KOMACEL (not general PVC), is it safe to use for herps? And assuming it is heated to herp related temperatures?

Also, I have in my melamine racks tested using aluminium tape below the heat tape to "reflect heat" upwards. It seems to have the opposite effect as the t-stat has to be set higher to get the same temperatures WITH the foil tape under the heat tape. So does foil tape actually sink the heat to make the PVC surface hotter?

To my understanding, PVC will start to emit HCL which is harmful fumes at 70 degrees Celsius (Is this correct?). This is under the temp used for ball pythons IN THE TUB. However, I do not know how hot the surface of the PVC will get under the heat tape. I also do not know about other things like dioxins etc. The KomaCEL documentation says that it does not contain heavy metals like lead or cadmium.

Can anyone chime in on this? Specific to the brand KomaCEL, or any other aspects of PVC safety with regards to the snakes? I am talking long term here like maybe issues after many years, as well as short term problems.
I know people use PVC and are fine, but there are many kinds of them, some cheap ones contain lead etc. which obviously is not good. So I think it is a fair question to ask specifically about KomaCEL.

Also, if it works I may want to build enclosures for my skinks with it too. Obviously, using light bulbs would create a lot of heat where the bulb is, so perhaps this will go beyond safe temperatures?

Oh yes, and can KomaCEL be painted easily? I know they print on it when used for signage but I am talking about painting it myself with paints that are safe for herps and the paint actually sticking to the smooth surface.

I have used both komatex and komacel My bearded dragon enclosure is made from Komacel and multipanel (aluminum clad PVC) It works well. The komatex I used was a few years ago now it is a bit softer and a little easier to bend. It also is fine. I understood out gassing occurred at beyond 95ºC (203ºF) mine never ever approaches this, even 70ºC is 158ºF. The hazards of PVCx usually come into play when the material is being cut and machined not during use. Why is is used in food grade applications as well.

Melamine has a handful of hazards that are 24/7 for 10+years regardless of temps. The out gassing of formeldahydes pose a risk to humans and likely animals as well. The new (low formeldahydes) replace urea formaldehyde glues with phenolic resins that leach phenols that reptiles are HIGHLY sensitive to. The cutting issues are more pronounced with particulate substrates of melamine boards. melamine toxicity has been an issue in china during the last ten years and the US FDA dropped the allowable limits by 100 times as a result. The additional issues of moisture and melamine substrate make disinfecting correctly a challenge. Saturating the built object, liquid gets into any and all joints that can cause swellling and cracking.

No komacel cannot easily be painted. It will take well to printers inks but in my experience paints do not work well. I might look at buying vinal intended for sign cutting in rolls and apply it. The range of colours is almost unlimited. It also is not a soming that requires aging like paint does.

Thank you Kitedemon,

I take it that you use heat bulbs for your beardie enclosures. Surely, at the roof where the bulb socket touches the PVCX it goes beyond 95C?

Also, when you say outgassing starts at that temperature, does that also include degradation and release of HCL? From my understanding, the outgassing of dioxins and phthalates occur only at high temperatures, but how about HCL which when it meets with moistures such as in eyes and lungs turn into hydrocholoric acid? Does that also not occur at the temperatures that may be under the heat tape?

Any idea whether foil tape actually reflects heat upwards or make it sink down? My experience is that WITH foil tape under the heat tape, there is actually LESS heat going up to the tub.

One more thing. You mention the outgassing during sawing, working etc. When putting the rack together, obviously I have to drill and put screws which will generate heat. Afterwards, will a simple rinse with water get rid of any harmful release from that?

Oh yes, you said you used komacel for beardie enclosures. Have you used it for racks? I can get the 13mm thick stuff and it seems quite stiff. Do you think it is stiff enough to have a rack with two 32 qt tubs across on each level with snakes in without significant sagging? I would prefer NOT to have support in between the tubs on each level.

Are they rigid enough to use as the sides and back if I were to make an "economy" rack without the entire sides and back, but just"pillars" say 2 - 4 inches wide, front and back?

Sorry, one last question. Do you or anyone else know anyone who has used PVC for the snakes for many many years to know if there are any slow appearing long term issues? I was told by someone to try polypropylene sheets as they say that is guarateed to not be harmful ever, but it was so heavy that it was worse than melamine.

Another brand of PVC is also available in case anyone else is interested.

http://www.thesun.com.hk/pdf/PALIGHT_En_Brochure.pdf
http://www.thesun.com.hk/pdf/PALOPAQUE_En_Leaflet.pdf

These are their product brochures and they seem very high quality. The are called Foamed PVC though. Is foamed PVC the same as PVCX, just a different name?

Yes it is the same.


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