A new adventure. Help me make sense?

Hey all!

So. I am relatively new to the snake world. Most of my experience thus far has been with cornsnakes. I originally actually thought I didn't like ball pythons, but now having met and held a few, I've sort of fallen in love. My husband's fond, too.

So we've been talking about the possibility of adding BPs to the collection and, eventually, breeding them.

The dilemma comes in what to do in terms of investment.

When we talk fantasy snakes, my husband is all about the piebalds. He wants to buy a pair of piebalds with the reasoning that they will reliably produce piebalds, every time. He feels that this is a stable investment and will support expanding into other morphs.

I, on the other hand, am far more interested in seeing what genetics will give me, so would like to go with (example) a pastel pied and a cinnamon enchi. This would mean, of course, that if bred there'd be no pieds in the first clutch, but there'd be a potentially greater diversity then and in the future. IMO, greater diversity=greater appeal if selling and building a name and a reputation. He sees this as setting ourselves up to have a clutch of all normals het pied, which in his book would be a bust. Me, I'd be happy!

Two very different points of view, so I figured I'd ask you guys, who have much more experience and knowledge. Given the means to invest in fantasy snakes, which would you do?

(Yes, we have had the discussion about how it's not about money first.)

Well 1.1 pieds is a good ongoing investment, think of it as a GIC.

The pastel pied and a cinnamon enchi is more like investing in property. You'll make your money, but it'll take a bit longer.

I'm not a banker, so theres a 50% chance my aqnalogy makes no cents (pun intended)

Either way, as long as you're careful, they'll both ROI

If you go with a pair of pieds, you'll set up a solid base for expansion. Personally, I'd probably look for one or both of the breeding pair to potentially be double-gene too. If/when I eventually start breeding, I hope to start off with two different breeding pairs so as generations move forward I can "mix and match" in a way, to play around with genetics. Mind you, my starter breeders will all be single-gene base morphs, so a slight difference of philosophy there.

When all's said and done, it comes down to what you guys want for the future and any particular projects you hope to get a foot into.

Ideally, you could have two 2-gene snakes to begin with (say, pastel pied and mojave pied) so there are still visual pieds in the initial clutch but also other genes in play. Any offspring that are "only" het pied beyond that clutch also have a chance of being visual morphs from the co-doms at play (pastel and/or Mojave).

Another option is to get one pied (or pastel pied, or whatever), and get a cinnamon enchi het pied so there's still a chance of hitting on a visual pied within the first clutch. But keep in mind, the price points for pieds are lower now than they used to be. A male pied hatchling is ~$450 in some places. A nice enchi is about the same. Not a huge difference in ROI whichever way you go. Yes, there's a chance you could end up with all "normal" het pied babies, but even hets add value. There wouldn't be many lavender albinos or clowns if not for hets being accessible, and even they are a good deal more expensive than "normals" (by comparison, not suggesting that they are overpriced).

You could also commit to the really long haul and abandon guaranteed visuals for double recessives- axanthic pieds, albino pieds, etc. Double hets are VERY valuable because people do appreciate how long it takes for the "payout" of hitting on a visual morph.

Why dont you get two different double gene animals that are both het pied? Say, a cinnamon enchi het and a bee het? Or something like that. A pair of those that are both het pied has a LOT of potential. You could possibly get a pied plus in the first clutch. Or, you could get a pied combo male,and a double gene het female so you hubby could have his pied. :D

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Two best ways to start IMHO:


Fastest return on investment

Relevant triple or quad gene male and 4 to 6 normal female proven breeders. Let
them settle in for the first year, breed them the second year. You can make
back what you invested and reinvest your profits on some nice morph females and
another male or two.


Best way to form a solid base and make more money long term while having
more fun

Purchase 4 or 5 single or double gene female hatchlings, grow them up for two
years or more, and purchase a nice double or triple gene male a year before you
plan to breed the females so that he will be ready for them. Lots more options
and combos are possible and once you make back your investment you have way
more combo options when you purchase new males since your females will all be
morphs.

I would agree with Chkadii.

You can compromise by having more interesting offspring than "just pieds".
I'd personally go with a Yellowbelly pied and a couple female pieds.

Overall I agree with strategy #2 that TJ mentioned.

however...

If you enter this hobby with making money in mind there is a huge likelihood you will be terribly disappointed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrLang

Overall I agree with strategy #2 that TJ mentioned.

however...

If you enter this hobby with making money in mind there is a huge likelihood you will be terribly disappointed.

---

I'd have to agree. Most people are not "business oriented" enough to make any real money in the hobby. What you can do is aim to always break even and still get every crazy high end morph on your wish list. I am 5 years in and still a ways from breaking even. I do however think I may be able to this season, and it is all up hill from there! I also didn't start with either of the two methods I mentioned, essentially wasting the first 2 years on trying to figure out how to do things the right way. I would be WAY better off now had I started with the second method, and essentially used the first method as soon as I realized that I had made a lot of silly purchases/decisions starting out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrLang

Overall I agree with strategy #2 that TJ mentioned.

however...

If you enter this hobby with making money in mind there is a huge likelihood you will be terribly disappointed.

---

Making money in the sense of making a profit is the pie in the sky wouldn't it be nice sort of dream. :)

Breaking even eventually would be my personal goal.

Believe me, I know snakes are not a get-rich-quick scheme. :)