Calico & Sugar?

Are they really two different morphs? Are they the same thing with two different names? Or are they two very closely looking things? According to WOB if you breed the two together you get 25% normal, 25% calico, 25% sugar, and 25% calico sugar. How do you tell which is which? I looked at several at the Pomona show and really didn't see a difference . Also if they are the same thing which name do you call them?

Don't know how it posted two. How do I delete one?

I believe they are just two different lines of the same morph. Sired from different original animals, being that they had different points of origin they could rightfully be named differently.
Similar to the whole Lesser/Butter thing. The two morphs came from different original animals. Many people may not be able to distinguish a butter from a lesser if they both hatched in the same clutch, as they are generally seen as the same morph. If a person buys a butter then they call it a butter, similarly if a person buys a calico they call it calico;and Vice versa if the animal is bought as a sugar then its a sugar.

They're the same thing.


What's confusing is that there are other genes that get re-discovered in the wild and come from different lines, yet they maintain the same name... which is what makes logical sense. Yellowbelly is the first to come to mind. I think they established Sugar in Europe and Calico in the US around the same time.

Hooblah has a good explanation. He says they're actually very distinct. I honestly thought they were the same until I did see the differences he pointed out.
For example, sugar pattern is a little different and almost always has the black back thing going on.

Rather than being the same like lesser/butter. Its seems more like they're different with similar traits like cinny/blk pastel.

Hopefully hooblah chime in.

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I was under the impression that Lessers/butters were easy to distinguish. Someone on here said something about lessers being more of a "khaki" color when they blush out and betters being more light in color.

My single gene lesser and butters are pretty different looking, but then you start making combo's and such, good luck.

1st generation RDR lesser (as hatchling)
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/01/11/u4yrugas.jpg

My new 2012 female butter
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/01/11/a7u5yqaq.jpg


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by BHReptiles

I was under the impression that Lessers/butters were easy to distinguish. Someone on here said something about lessers being more of a "khaki" color when they blush out and betters being more light in color.

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No. Both can go either way. There are examples of both morphs that are really yellow or really dark. Some are very khaki and pale. Some are blushed out and reduced, while others are not. Its individual differences, not morph.
If there's a lesser that looks like its supposed to be a 'lesser', there's a butter out there that can fit the same description. And vice versa.

The only difference is that the same mutation in two individual snakes were founded by two different people who just named them differently. But in the end, still the same mutation.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by satomi325

Hooblah has a good explanation. He says they're actually very distinct. I honestly thought they were the same until I did see the differences he pointed out.
For example, sugar pattern is a little different and almost always has the black back thing going on.

Rather than being the same like lesser/butter. Its seems more like they're different with similar traits like cinny/blk pastel.

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Thanks Nikki, the cinny/blk pastel and calico/sugar different is a good comparison. There are a few subtle traits I've been noticing in calicos vs sugars. The other lines of "calico" such as the NWE or the NERD line I haven't really looked into much, though there is a post on a forum I found that had a pretty good description with lots of pictures as well...

What I look for in a sugar is a solid, wide, black back with nice blushing in the dorsal. It should be spotless with really fat empty alien heads. The white tends to show up more in the wide empty alien heads. I have never seen black dots inside the white, so the fewer the dots, the higher the white.

Calicos seem to have thinner alien heads, and often have some cool banding going on. Since I don't expect calicos to have blushed black backs, they sometimes have thick stripes along their backs. I like the black in calicos to be JET black.. My calico has zero blushing in her black, and it makes for some awesome coloration. Calicos seem to have way more "ringers" than sugars, but that doesn't mean sugars can't get ringers lol.

What really makes the gene though is the white sides.. both genes can have varying amounts of white, but medium white sugars, if they have all the traits I mentioned (zero dots - blushed black back) look soo much hotter than medium white calicos that express the typical patterns of your wild type ball python.

The best way to see the difference between a calico and a sugar is to see the pastel versions of both :bow::bow:... The traits I mentioned really shine when pastel is added. The blushing and pattern is highlighted with the pastel gene... One of my favorite calico/sugar combos...

Also.... Not ALL calicos and sugars will express 100% of the traits 100% of the time... People must remember that no 2 pattern/color combinations will be the same. Natural variability comes into play. Lessers/butters vary too much that they look exactly alike. Even their combos vary..I would definitely compare the sugar/calico differences to those of the black pastel/cinnys. Subtle differences that are exaggerated when pastel is added :P.