Breeding Super Black Pastels

Hi everyone, so I was just wondering because I've heard a lot of controversial information on breeding super black pastels due to duck billing, if anyone knows how to avoid this problem? I'm really getting into the black pastel gene and don't like the results of black pastel to cinnamon pastel due to the browning on the supers (also it wouldn't seem like a true super black pastel), so if anyone has any advice on breeders who have succeeded any information would be greatly appreciated. Also would breeding black pastel to super black pastel erase the duck bill problem?

as far as i kno there will always be a chance of producing them with kinks and duck billing when shooting for the super form of the black pastel and cinny. Some one correct me if im wrong.

I'm shooting for Super Black Pastels some day so I've done a bit of research. Some breeders such as Nerd have chosen to stay away completely from the project due to the issues with the Super, while others such as Outback Reptiles claim that their line makes perfect Supers. I've chosen to go with unrelated animals. My male is a Hypo Black Pastel that I got from Gulf Coast Reptiles, and my female is an Ian G line I got from Maki Goskowicz.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7142/6...6f574710_z.jpg

Unfortunately my male hasn't been cooperating with me this season. I've even got him with my most promiscuous female (a normal), and despite her best efforts, hasn't gotten him to lock yet. My female Black Pastel has been locking with a Mojave on a regular basis however. Black Savannahs wouldn't be a bad consolation prize...

Additionally, I would incubate their clutch slightly cooler than normal (85-87). Supposedly this helps with Caramels and their kinking issues, and may work with Super Black Pastels as well. If anyone has hatched Super Black Pastels, your experience would be greatly appreciated if you chime in.

I haven't heard of the supers kinking, can anyone provide more info?

I don't think there's any guaranteed way of avoiding the duck billing. I've heard of people getting better results by crossing lines, or by crossing black pastels with cinnys, but those still seem to produce some duckbilling.

It doesn't seem to be any kind of major handicapping deformity, just a different look. And if you look closely at the pictures of panda pied, she's got it, too...

Both of my black pastels are Ian G., and they're both "whistlers". I suspect the whistling is just the single-gene version of whatever causes the duckbilling in the supers. Does anybody else have a black pastel that whistles, and what line is your animal?

Kinking is not uncommon, but its not a consistent thing.

As for the Duck Billing, I have only done Black Pastel to Cinnamon crosses, and have not gotten much Duck Billing (very slight only).

I have three Silver Bullets and only one has slight duck billing. My Super Pewter does not have any at all, and it is Super Cinnamon Super Pastel.

Black Pastels are great and make great combos, but making Super Blacks is always going to be a gamble...

I tried to make some once a few years ago and missed... Definitely not on the top of my list for future breedings!

Colin posted some Deformed Super Black Pastel pics and info in this thread...

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...x-black-pastel

There are some different lines of black pastel, your best bet is to get 2 different lines.

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Originally Posted by Lupe

There are some different lines of black pastel, your best bet is to get 2 different lines.

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That is no guarantee of that fixing it either... but it's worth a shot.

i have one black pastel and 2 cinny females i bred this year to a cinny male all unrelated so will see what happens.

I bred a super pewter to silverbullet had 2 super pewters 2 silverbullets zero issues.