BPs at work

I work at one of those "evil chain pet stores", but over all everyone in the petcare department including the manager is very devoted to the animals and doing whatever is necessary for their care--regardless of corporate policy and even giving the customer what they want. The husbandry isn't absolutely perfect, but it's not bad either. The tanks are a little overcrowded, but not to an extreme degree, there are never more than three animals in one enclosure (other than the birds, then it's never more than six and their cages are huge).

All of the reptiles are really healthy, eat well, and seem appropriately active--except for the ball pythons. We have three BPs right now, one that came in in January and two that came in the beginning of June. The one from January is probably about 7 or 8 months old and the ones from June are probably only 2 or 3 months old. They are all the same size :mad:. Right now all three have some stuck shed; luckily all of their eyecaps are clear, but that has to be uncomfortable. One of them has been stuck for at least three weeks (most of it is off now, but there are still a few patches). None of them eat on their own, they are all assist fed. I bet that if they were left a few weeks without being assist fed that they would eventually eat on their own, but they are all too skinny to risk doing that. They get assist fed two pinkie mice once a week. Their temperature is good, and their humidity may be a little high most of the time, but it's almost never too low since I got there (I can get exact numbers tomorrow). I bought a BP a little over a month ago and he was only 65grams. These three are all smaller than he was.

I'm new at the pet store, so I can't make big changes, but I can do small things. They consider me very knowledgeable about reptiles (most of them know a ton about fish, birds, and turtles, but not a ton about snakes and lizards beyond the corporate care guides--other than that the care guides are totally wrong about humidity). I could try assist feeding fuzzies instead of pinkies, but I couldn't switch it to every four/five days rather than every week or let them fast until they decide to eat on their own. I could probably get them to the vet or at the least get fecal samples. The manager never hesitates to let animals go to the vet, the only problem is that the vet always claims to have no time for store animals, so it may take a while.

I've been told that all of the BPs that this store ever gets never eat on their own. I'm inclined to believe that the problem comes from the supplier rather than the store because of the level of devotion and care all of the petcare employees are showing, the husbandry is better than the corporate care guides, and all of the other animals (including five colubrids and a sand boa) are very healthy and eating perfectly.

What should I do? An 8 month old ball python should be much larger than this, I'm really worried about him:(

All you can do is your best. You can't save them all. Maybe buy some of their frozen rodents and feed it to them.

It's just not the suppliers, it's the store. Regardless of how caring the employees are, ball pythons are very sensitive as far as snakes go. The tiniest issue can cause them to go off feed for months. A lot of reptiles are a lot more forgiving and can live in "pet store" conditions without too much of a problem. Unfortunately, ball pythons are not the same. Pet stores, especially the chain ones, tend to make the tanks too hot and too "cluttered" with roomates. The humidity also sucks due to blinding lights (which also stress out the ball pythons) causing the bad sheds and possible dehydration. No offense to you at all or even any of the other employees, because I know it's not technically their fault they HAVE to run by corporate "standards", but this is why ball pythons in pet stores generally look very sick.

As far as helping, the most you could do is help with the stuck shed by soaking them. They will probably really appreciate it and feel a little better, plus it might feel good to get out of those lights for a short time. You could also move the half log hides (which suck...but I know you have to use them) against the back side of the glass. It will help seclude the back side of the hide a little more. You could also mist when no one's looking, to help up the humidity, and always put out fresh water to the rim. These are all little things that don't cost any extra, I wish you luck.

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Originally Posted by flyingsqueak

Right now all three have some stuck shed; luckily all of their eyecaps are clear, but that has to be uncomfortable. One of them has been stuck for at least three weeks (most of it is off now, but there are still a few patches).

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Most chain pet stores sell a product called Shed Ease. This product is wonderful for treating a stuck shed. a 20-30min supervised soak in 80-85 degree water with some Shed Ease added will help remove that stuck shed and also help hydrate the BPs. Getting the temperature of the water right can be tricky though, as 85 degree water will feel cool to you. I recommend using a IR Thermometer if your work does not already provide one for you (which they really should) to help get the water to the proper temperature.

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Originally Posted by flyingsqueak

None of them eat on their own, they are all assist fed. I bet that if they were left a few weeks without being assist fed that they would eventually eat on their own, but they are all too skinny to risk doing that. They get assist fed two pinkie mice once a week. Their temperature is good, and their humidity may be a little high most of the time, but it's almost never too low since I got there (I can get exact numbers tomorrow). I bought a BP a little over a month ago and he was only 65grams. These three are all smaller than he was.

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When there is something wrong with a BP or it's environment the first thing it will do is stop eating. Young snakes are typically are eating machines. If these guys are not taking food on their own there is something wrong with the husbandry.

First off do these BP's have cover? Many pet stores I see don't provide their BP's with proper hides so they can show them off to the customers. Since BP's are such secretive snakes if they don't feel secure and hidden they will get stressed and not eat. If the BP's at your store don't have hides that they can cram themselves into and feel hidden that is the first thing I would address.

Assist feeding is very stressful. I know your hands may be tied but the best way to get these guys back eating on their own is to fix the stuck shed, double and triple check their husbandry and then LEAVE THEM ALONE for at least a week, 2 would be better and then offer food. If your store is not willing do to this and would rather keep trying to sell people stressed non-eating snakes then they truly should not be allowed to sell Ball Pythons.

BP's do not starve easily (but it can happen), giving them at least a extra week of seclusion with proper husbandry really is the best way to get them eating again rather than constantly stressfully assist feeding while missing the entire problem that is causing them not to eat.

I recommend checking out the BP.net caresheet, which is the most complete and accurate care sheet I've seen, and seeing if the husbandry outlined in it matches the care provided by your store.

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Originally Posted by flyingsqueak

I work at one of those "evil chain pet stores", but over all everyone in the petcare department including the manager is very devoted to the animals and doing whatever is necessary for their care

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That is great to hear that you are so passionate and caring for the animals you sell. Unfortunately employees like you are the exception, not the rule. Until I start to see consistent good husbandry at the chain pet stores I visit my opinion that they should be allow to sell Ball Pythons will not change.
Serious kudos to you though. If the conditions at these stores are ever going to change it will be because if people like you.

Thanks. I'm already soaking them, they always have a full bowl of fresh water, and they're being misted at least twice a day. Like I said, I'm not sure what the humidity is exactly, but I think it's actually too high (there's often condensation on the glass, and the aspen is sometimes damp). (edit) and the hide is against the back wall--they don't use it though, they are almost always laying underneath the lamp, should I put the hide on the side of the tank with the lamp and the water on the other side since they seem to prefer the lamp side? (end edit)

Do you think it's just the stress of sharing a terrarium and the lights? Or should I be worried about parasites? If there's any reason to fear parasites I can most likely get them to the vet, but I need something more than a bit of worry.

They are getting two pinkies every week, shouldn't that be enough to keep them a little more than skin and bones? My BP is gaining weight on two fuzzies every five days. I don't expect these guys to gain on two pinkies, but should they still be losing weight? I can try to feed them fuzzies instead of pinkies, but would the possibility of weight gain be worth the extra stress of a larger meal?

It could be a mixture of the roomates and the lights, and I certainly wouldn't rule out parasites. Fecal tests can be done for as little as $25 at a vet, and I'd assume if one has parasites then the rest in the tank do since they spread fairly easily. If your store won't get the fecal done, you could always send in a fecal sample and pay for it yourself.

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Originally Posted by flyingsqueak

the hide is against the back wall--they don't use it though, they are almost always laying underneath the lamp, should I put the hide on the side of the tank with the lamp and the water on the other side since they seem to prefer the lamp side?

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Is the hide you are talking about a proper BP hide (fully enclosed, can't see the snake from the outside), or a half log?
And how many hides are in the enclosure? There should be at least 2 identical hides, one on the cool side and one on the warm side so the BP's can feel secure and properly thermoregulate.
Also do the enclosures have UTH's that provides belly heat or only a lamp?

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Originally Posted by flyingsqueak

They are getting two pinkies every week, shouldn't that be enough to keep them a little more than skin and bones? My BP is gaining weight on two fuzzies every five days. I don't expect these guys to gain on two pinkies, but should they still be losing weight? I can try to feed them fuzzies instead of pinkies, but would the possibility of weight gain be worth the extra stress of a larger meal?

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Right out of the egg Ball Pythons are capable of eating either hopper mice or pink rats. Two pink mice is a extremely small meal for a BP of any age.
I don't agree with assist feeding them but if you are going put them through that stress I do think they should get at least fuzzie mice out of it. For assist feeding you should go down one size prey item from what they would eat on their own, so at least mouse fuzzies.

Thanks so much for the advise.

I'm going to try to make as many of the changes as I can, and I will get a fecal sample to a vet.

The snake who has had stuck shed for at least three weeks is now free of the last patches!:snake:

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Originally Posted by flyingsqueak

All of the reptiles are really healthy, eat well, and seem appropriately active--except for the ball pythons. We have three BPs right now, one that came in in January and two that came in the beginning of June. The one from January is probably about 7 or 8 months old and the ones from June are probably only 2 or 3 months old. They are all the same size :mad:.

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First off I work at a Petco so I know working with corporate rules is hard. Is there any way you can separate the animals? I got this approved at my store and now the BP's are doing much better. On their own. If you can't separate them, then find easily distinguishing characteristics on them and keep a record of their weights if you show a lack of growth or weight loss, and show it to a corporate manager you should be able to get vet treatment. The vet should then be able to approve live feedings and get them back up to health. If none of that works try assist feeding fuzzy or hopper mice every five days to get them up to a healthier weight.

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Originally Posted by flyingsqueak

Right now all three have some stuck shed; luckily all of their eyecaps are clear, but that has to be uncomfortable. One of them has been stuck for at least three weeks (most of it is off now, but there are still a few patches).

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Soak the BPs every couple of days in a Shed Ease solution or in just luke warm water. If you have a spare pillow case you can stick the BP in the wet bag and hopefully have all the shed come off.

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Originally Posted by flyingsqueak

None of them eat on their own, they are all assist fed. I bet that if they were left a few weeks without being assist fed that they would eventually eat on their own, but they are all too skinny to risk doing that. They get assist fed two pinkie mice once a week. Their temperature is good, and their humidity may be a little high most of the time, but it's almost never too low since I got there (I can get exact numbers tomorrow). I bought a BP a little over a month ago and he was only 65grams. These three are all smaller than he was.

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Like I said see if you can get live to get them to eat on their own of not, up the assist feeds. Remember the more BPs you take out the more come in and have to take their place.

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Originally Posted by flyingsqueak

I've been told that all of the BPs that this store ever gets never eat on their own. I'm inclined to believe that the problem comes from the supplier rather than the store because of the level of devotion and care all of the petcare employees are showing, the husbandry is better than the corporate care guides, and all of the other animals (including five colubrids and a sand boa) are very healthy and eating perfectly.

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BPs are more easily stressed then the other species, that's why they have a harder time coming into a new environment. They sometimes refuse in the most perfect of conditions so one thing being off will generally cause issues. If your temp/ humidity is being read by the plastic gauges i recommend getting an accurite that you can place in the tanks to get an idea of the actual measurements and adjust accordingly.