Pine Bedding Bad for Rats?

I was reading up on rats (just got 3, 1 male 2 females) and the website I want to said: NEVER USE CEDAR OR PINE SHAVINGS AS THEY WILL CAUSE RESPITORY INFECTIONS AND WILL MAKE YOUR RAT(S) SICK. This was a pet rat website just btw, not a feeder rat website. All the feeder rat breeding instructions says you can use pine bedding, hell, the zoo I work for uses pine bedding in their rat house. So whats so bad about it? I'm asking this cause I'm keeping my rats on pine right now. I have a massive bag of it and I don't want to waste it.

I have been breeding rats on pine for many years and never had a problem. You do have to be careful not to get the pine with a lot of dust in it but I have never had a problem with using pine for rats.

I use Cozy Den pine shavings and have zero issues with sneezing or any kind of illness.
Kiln dried pine is perfectly safe with rats.

Kiln dried dust free is supposedly safe. But don't medicate your rats if they're on pine. That can cause death due to changes in enzymes in the liver. I assume you're a feeder breeder, so that probably won't apply to you.

Being kiln dried is -very- important. Otherwise, you will end up with un-happy, and sick rats.

Here's a long discussion we've recently been having on another board about whether or not it's safe to use pine shavings: http://mouselovers.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2348

I have been using pine pellets (equine pine) and pine shaving (TSC brand) for years and never had any issues.

Just curious, how much money do you save by using pine over an alternative such as carefresh or aspen or whatnot. Pine has been shown to cause RI in rodents (and other animals) due to the release of aromatic carbon compounds (phenols and such).

Sure kiln dried pine may reduce the amount of phenols released by the bedding, so pine CAN be used without the occurance of RIs but why risk it?

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Originally Posted by Krynn

Just curious, how much money do you save by using pine over an alternative such as carefresh or aspen or whatnot. Pine has been shown to cause RI in rodents (and other animals) due to the release of aromatic carbon compounds (phenols and such).

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What source are you using to verify? Please provide it.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

What source are you using to verify? Please provide it.

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I second that... Show the evidence, not internet "heresay"...
I've been breeding on pine since the mid 80's. Both on personal and commercial levels. I own a pet store, it's all I use, and I recommend it to my customers. Of course, I don't turn down the sale if someone wants to buy Carefresh or the other more expensive stuff.... But, if they ask, I tell/sell them pine...

It seems there is a lot of scientific proof that cedar is bad, and then it just goes on saying that pine is similar. Hmmm. There is actually a website that's called www.pineisfine.com. If you trust that as a source. It quotes the AVMA, so why not.

There are scientific studies, and it's a fact that the phenols in pine can be respinsible for RIs, and enzyme changes in the livers of small animals.
This is why it is not used in laboratory settings.

HOWEVER. All studies were done on un-treated pine, and not treated pine. Supposedly the treated stuff is just as harmless as Aspen.

Here is some information on the subject: http://buckysbunnies.tripod.com/Pine.html/