A big statement about CAMARILLO/CARAMEL/ULTRAMEL/CRIDER BALLS

I have spent whole day searching the internet for the caramel/ultramel/crider balls info.

Starting with this http://www.cuttingedgeherp.com/pytho...ythons&UID=121 I also started wondering about...

...about what is really going on.

Depending on Vin Russo info:

"There appears to be two Caramels forms out there. One has a Root Beer type of color with orange highlights & this one seems to be the older or original trait first produced by Kevin McKurley at Nerd back in 1996. The other type is more Orange and was originally produced by Mark Bell back in the late nineties ( some call this line Ultramel )"

he made a Camarillo from puting together these two "lines". Camarillo is a double homozygous of these two then.

Assuming the Bell's line - "some call this line Ultramel" is similar to the originall recent new morph ULTRAMEL.

We can see the ULTRAMEL here http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...02451-Ultramel! and depending on post #26 this is the CRIDER BALL which we can see here http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-a-crider-ball.

This whole thing makes me think that Bell line, ULTRAMEL and CRIDER BALL at least looks very similar... I dont want to say the same...

So my question is - which one is which one ??

Vin Russo's pic leads to the conlcusion:

1 - CAMARILLO
2 - BELL line called ultramel and Crider ball
3 - the original NERD caramel

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/2...loandcars3.jpg


Moreover ;) when I started to looking for original Bell bloodline the first which I found was this: http://www.constrictors.com/Collecti...allPython.html

Mike Wilbanks also wrote there: "We are working with the Bell line of Caramels."

Comparison of the Bell's caramel (called ultramel) and the Wilbanks caramel which as he wrote shall be the Bell's caramel, they look different... Mike's caramels look more like the number 3 NERD line. So is he wrong...?

On the other hand when I've visited NERD webpage I have feelings that these http://newenglandreptile.com/nerd/in...lt-albino.html looks more like......... :confused::weirdface

I am a bit confused right now... Can anybody clear my mind and explain which one is which one??

Somewhat irrelevant, but that Camarillo is one good looking snake!

Do these names get a patent once the morph has been created? I have seen so many names for Ball Python Morphs I cant take it anymore:rolleye2:


By the way I just created the "Hollowman" Morph. I will sell it at a steal for $15,000:gj:

refresh my memory is the ultramel a dominate trait?

recessive...

Man, I had to read that post, like, six times to figure out what you were asking. :rofl:

I think I get your question though ... And I get why you're confused.

My understanding, based on reading all the links you provided, is this:

There are two different morphs out there, each with a few different founding bloodlines. The two different morphs are called caramel (also known as xanthic, or caramel albino, or T+ albino) and ultramel (also known as Crider).

On this thread that you posted:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-a-crider-ball

Ryan Young explains that the original Crider ball was mixed up with the caramel. This is why the whole thing on Vin Russo's site gets pretty confusing.

My understanding is, the "Bell Line Caramel" that Vin Russo is referencing on his website, and in that photograph, is actually a Crider/ultramel.

However, the Bells ALSO have a line of actual caramel albino, which is the same morph as the NERD line caramel pictured in that photograph. (It is also the same as the Malsin line caramel, VPI line caramel, etc., etc. -- those are all compatible with each other.)

Generally, when people refer to "Bell line caramels," they are referring to a regular caramel albino, but on that webpage, Vin Russo is using the term to refer to what we usually call an "Ultramel/Crider."

... Does that sound right, or did I just confused myself? :O

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serpent_Nirvana

Man, I had to read that post, like, six times to figure out what you were asking. :rofl:

I think I get your question though ... And I get why you're confused.

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HEHE, excuse me but this whole topic makes me so confused that I couldn't write about it more clear ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serpent_Nirvana

Generally, when people refer to "Bell line caramels," they are referring to a regular caramel albino, but on that webpage, Vin Russo is using the term to refer to what we usually call an "Ultramel/Crider.

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This fits my thoughts ;) So depending on that nowadays it is hard to obtain "Ultramel/Crider" balls and price is higher then "normal" caramels?

This fits my thoughts ;) So depending on that nowadays it is hard to obtain "Ultramel/Crider" balls and price is higher then "normal" caramels?[/QUOTE]

But don't let the names fool you into paying extra... I buy my BP based on it's fancy color and pattern, not fancy names.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lcreptiles

HEHE, excuse me but this whole topic makes me so confused that I couldn't write about it more clear ;)

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Oh don't worry, it wasn't you -- it IS confusing!!

Quote:

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This fits my thoughts ;) So depending on that nowadays it is hard to obtain "Ultramel/Crider" balls and price is higher then "normal" caramels?

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Yes indeed.

Ultramel/Crider is a completely different morph (NOT just a fancy name) and is currently much more rare than caramels, and therefore more expensive.

However, I've noticed that "regular" caramels seem to be priced very much based on quality of color and pattern, with a lot of price and quality variation (especially compared to a lot of other recessives).

:confused: I was very confused too but seems to make sense after re-reading several times... Then I scrolled down for the pics :O :O:O those are some hottt snakes!!!!