My 11 day correspondence with AZ FISH AND GAME

Kalina Jaggers ✆
to Karen,mike

show details Aug 2 (11 days ago)

So yet another issue of a guy tyring to be macho you could say. anyways he caught a blacktail with a bike pump and has it in a tiny tank with zip ties. had it posted on facebook. I know he'll release it where he got it. is there anyway you can send me a detailed list on steps to owning venomous reptiles in az as well as the requirements you have to meet before hand. It would be greatly appreciated he is not one to sell or trade he's interested in it willing to learn the right way but also needs the facts. plus i would like to post them on a forum I am on to spread the word.

Thank you!!!!

Karen

to me, Michael

show details Aug 5 (7 days ago)

Hi Kalina,As far as I know, there isn't an detailed steps on owning venomous reptiles in AZ. You need a hunting license to collect them, but that's as far as we go. How people take care of them is up to them. Here is our reptile regulation-it has a list of species that can not be collected or kept. you want to be a rehabilitator or zoo owner, there are special regulations for that.Mike, anything to add?

Karen Wildlife Manager Region V

Kalina Jaggers ✆

to Karen

show details Aug 5 (7 days ago)

hmmmm reading through it says yes about collecting them and then catch 22s it with this section defining them as restricted live wildlife

C. Reptiles listed below are "restricted live wildlife" as defined in R12-4-401.

All species of the order Crocodylia. Common names: gavials, caimans, crocodiles, alligators.

The following species of the order Testudines. Common names: turtles, tortoises.

All species of the family Chelydridae. Common name: snapping turtles.

All species of the genera Gopherus and Xerobates of the family Testudinidae. Common name: gopher tortoises, including the desert tortoise.

All species of the following families or genera of the order Squamata.

The family Helodermatidae. Common names: Gila monster, Mexican beaded lizard.

The family Elapidae. Common names: cobras, mambas, coral snakes, kraits, Australian elapids.

The family Hydrophiidae. Common name: sea snakes.

The family Viperidae. Common names: true vipers and pit vipers, including rattlesnakes.

The family Atractaspidae. Common name: burrowing asps.

The following species and genera of the family Colubridae:

Dispholidus typus. Common name: boomslang.

Thelotornis kirtlandii. Common name: bird snake or twig snake.

Rhabdophis. Common names: keelbacks.

so there's that above stating they are not allowed with out a permit....

• ARIZ. COMP. ADMIN R. & REGS. R12-4-417 - Wildlife Holding License

A. The Department shall issue wildlife holding licenses to qualified individuals for the purposes provided in this Section. The wildlife holding license authorizes the person holding the license to engage in specific activities with the specific live wildlife listed on the license. The activities shall be listed on the license to be authorized and may include but not be limited to any of the following: possession, transportation, importation, educational display, exhibit, purchase, propagation, export, give away, or kill. The Department's evaluation of the applicant's proposal and qualifications and the purpose of the license will determine if the Department will issue or deny the permit and the activities the license authorizes.

B. The Department shall not issue a license to any applicant whose privilege to take or possess wildlife is under current suspension or revocation by the government of any state or the United States.

C. The Department shall issue a wildlife holding license only for the primary purposes following, when the purpose is in the best interest of the wildlife or the species, will not adversely impact other affected wildlife in Arizona, and may be served without posing a threat to wildlife or public safety:

Wildlife management: gathering information valuable to maintenance of wild populations;

Education;

The advancement of science, or promotion of the public health or welfare;

When humane treatment by a person is necessary to safeguard and protect the interests of an animal unable to meet its own needs in the wild, when it has been abandoned, or permanently disabled, or is no longer useful for any previously-existing licensed purpose.

D. The Department shall issue a wildlife holding license for the sole purpose of exhibiting live wildlife already possessed under the authority of R12-4-404 or already possessed under R12-4-417, when the wildlife may be exhibited without posing a threat to wildlife or the public and will not adversely impact other affected wildlife in Arizona.

E. Applicants for a wildlife holding license shall obtain from and submit to the Department a form providing the following information:

The applicant's name, mailing address, and telephone number.

If applicable, the name, address, and telephone number of the educational, scientific, or other institutional affiliation of the applicant.

The species, or higher taxa, if appropriate, of wildlife proposed for an allowable activity.

The applicant's signature.

F. Applicants for a wildlife holding license shall also submit the following with their application form:

If the wildlife is currently in possession, submit evidence of lawful possession as defined in R12-4-401. If the wildlife is not yet in possession, submit proof of application for evidence of lawful possession. If the application is for exhibit of wildlife possessed under the authority of R12-4-404, provide an affidavit that the wildlife was lawfully taken under authority of a hunting or fishing license in accordance with Commission order or is the progeny of wildlife lawfully taken.

The street address or legal description of the location where the wildlife is to be held and a detailed diagram of the facilities where the wildlife is to be held.

A detailed description of the procedures that will be used to meet the requirements of R12-4-428.

A statement of the applicant's experience in handling and providing care for the wildlife to be held or of other experience that may be relevant to handling or providing care for wildlife.

The dates proposed to begin and end holding the wildlife.

A statement of the planned disposition and method of disposition of the wildlife at the conclusion of the proposed activities.

If the purpose of the license is for wildlife management, education, the advancement of science, or the promotion of the public health or welfare, submit a detailed description of the proposed management, educational, or scientific activity.

If the purpose of the license is for humane treatment, submit a written statement explaining why the wildlife is unable to meet its own needs in the wild, whether it has been abandoned, or permanently disabled, or is no longer useful for any previously existing licensed purpose. The statement shall also specify where the wildlife is currently possessed and who possesses it.

If the purpose of the license is to exhibit live wildlife already possessed under the authority of R12-4-404 or already possessed under R12-4-417, submit a detailed description of the proposed exhibit activity.

G. The Department may require that wildlife used for lawful activities under the authority of the wildlife holding license be permanently marked for identification purposes, when the Department determines this is necessary for the best interest of the public and the wildlife. If this is a requirement, it will be specified on the license.

H. The licensee shall ensure that a copy of the license accompanies any shipment of wildlife made under the authority of the license.

I. The licensee shall annually obtain from and submit to the Department a report form providing the following information within 30 days after the license expires:

The licensee's name, address, and phone number;

A listing of each animal held during the year, by species, including the source and date of acquisition and the place and date of disposition for each animal.

J. The licensee shall comply with R12-4-409 and R12-4-428.

K. Wildlife holding licenses expire on December 31 of the year of issuance, or, if the licensee is a representative of an institution, organization, or agency, upon termination of affiliation with that entity, whichever comes first.

L. This rule is effective January 1, 2000.

and then the penalties etc......

• ARIZ. COMP. ADMIN R. & REGS. R12-4-409 - General Provisions and Penalties for Special Licenses

A. The Department shall issue special licenses as defined in R12-4-401, when application is made and criteria are met as prescribed in the rule governing the specific special license. No special license for any wildlife shall be valid for any wildlife protected by federal law or regulation unless supported by federally issued documentation rendering the licensed activity lawful.

B. All special licenses expire on December 31 for the year issued unless otherwise specified in the governing rule. If application for a new special license is not made by the expiration date, live wildlife possessed pursuant to the expired license shall be considered unlawfully possessed and is subject to seizure by the Department. If application for a new special license with no change from a currently existing special license is made on or prior to the expiration date, the existing license shall remain valid while application is pending with the Department.

C. Knowingly providing false information upon application for any special license shall be grounds for denying the special license, and any special license so obtained is void and of no effect from the date of issuance thereof.

D. Denials shall be issued in writing and shall state the reason for denial. Any person whose application has been denied may appeal to the Commission as provided in R12-4-608.

E. Special license holders shall keep records and submit reports as required by the rule governing their special license. Such records shall be exhibited to any Department game ranger upon reasonable request. Failure to keep records or submit reports as required shall be grounds for rejecting an application or for revocation of a special license.

F. Facilities of special license holders are subject to reasonable inspection by a game ranger for compliance with any requirements imposed by this Article. A routine inspection shall not be considered reasonable when the game ranger has inspected another facility holding wildlife of the same class within the previous 72 hours when the game ranger had contact with the wildlife or there was reason to believe disease may have been present.

G. When a disease as determined by a person with relevant expertise or other condition constituting an emergency exists that poses an immediate threat to the welfare of wildlife, including the wildlife held pursuant to special license, or to the public, the Department may immediately order a cessation of operation under special license and, if necessary, humane disposition or quarantine of any contaminated or threatening wildlife. Disease testing must be performed as directed by the Department or wildlife quarantined must be destroyed. Any disease giving rise to an emergency condition pursuant to this subsection shall be diagnosed by a person or persons professionally certified to make such diagnosis. Once operation has ceased and an emergency no longer exists, subsection (H) shall apply.

H. When a condition exists, including disease or any violation of this Article, including any violation of Section R12-4-428, which poses a threat to the welfare of wildlife, including the wildlife held, or to the public, but which threat does not constitute an emergency, the Department shall provide the licensee a written notice of the condition, by certified mail or personal service, which notice shall specify a reasonable period of time for the licensee to cure the noticed condition. Failure of the licensee to cure the noticed condition within the time specified by the Department shall constitute a violation pursuant to subsection (I) of this rule. When a licensee receives three notices pursuant to this subsection for the same condition within a two-year period, the third notice shall be treated as a failure to cure.

I. Violation of any provision of this rule, or of A.R.S. § 13-2908, Criminal nuisance; or conviction of any criminal offense involving cruelty to animals, including A.R.S. § 13-2910; or of the rule governing a specific special license; or refusal to permit reasonable inspection of facilities, wildlife, or required records may result in any or all of the following actions by the Department:

Filing of criminal charges;

Suspension of authority to hold wildlife pursuant to special license for the remainder of validity of the license;

Seizure of any wildlife held pursuant to the special license, and its humane disposition, except that such wildlife shall not be killed pending appeal by the licensee;

Denial of subsequent application for a special license for a period not to exceed five years.

J. This rule is effective January 1, 1995.

and this.....

• ARIZ. COMP. ADMIN R. & REGS. R12-4-425 - Restricted live wildlife lawfully possessed without license or permit prior to the effective date of Article 4

A. Any person lawfully possessing restricted live wildlife without license or permit from the Department prior to the effective date of this rule may continue to possess this wildlife and to use this wildlife for any purpose that was lawful prior to the effective date of this rule, and no special license shall be required provided:

The person notifies the Department's Phoenix office in writing within 30 calendar days of the effective date of this rule of the restricted live wildlife held, including the number of individuals of each species and the purpose for which it is used; or

The person maintains documentation of the restricted live wildlife held, including the number of individuals of each species and the purpose for which it is used. Documentation shall be notarized and dated within 30 calendar days of the effective date of this rule in order to be valid.

B. Written notification or documentation required in subsection (A) shall contain the name and address of the person possessing the restricted live wildlife and the location where the wildlife is held. The Department shall acknowledge receipt of notification in writing. Those persons maintaining their own documentation shall make it available for inspection upon request of a game ranger.

C. Wildlife possessed pursuant to this rule may be disposed of only by the following methods:

Exportation;

Within Arizona, to a holder of a special license, when that special license authorizes possession of the species involved;

Euthanization;

As otherwise directed by the Department.

D. This rule does not apply to desert tortoises, which are exempted pursuant to R12-4-407.

• ARIZ. COMP.ADMIN R. & REGS. R12-4-426 -

Possession of Primates

A. For the purposes of this Section, the following definitions apply:

"Primate" means a non-human primate not listed in subsection R12-4-406(A)(4).

"Infant" means an animal weighing less than 50% of the weight of an adult as identified in "The Pictorial Guide to Living Primates", Pagonias Press 1996, and not including any later edition. This material is incorporated by reference. A copy of the incorporated material is on file with the Secretary of State and available from all Arizona Game and Fish Department regional offices.

"Zoonotic" means a disease that can be transmitted to humans by vertebrate animals.

B. A person shall not buy, sell, barter, gift, or import an infant primate in Arizona.

C. A person may import a non-infant primate into Arizona only if:

The primate has been tested for and reported to be disease free from any zoonotic disease that poses a serious health risk, including tuberculosis, Simian Herpes B virus, and Simian Immunodeficiency Virus, as determined by the Arizona Game and Fish Department to be appropriate to the species being imported; and

Test dates and test result dates are within 30 days prior to the date of importation; and

Tests were done by and test results were determined by qualified persons, as determined by the Arizona Game and Fish Department.

D. A primate shall be contained within the confines of the legal owner's private property, except as follows:

When transported in a cage, crate, or carrier to or from a licensed veterinarian; or

When transported in a cage, crate, or carrier into or out of Arizona for lawful purposes, or within Arizona to complete a lawful sale.

E. A primate that bites, scratches, or otherwise exposes a human to pathogenic organisms as determined by the Arizona Game and Fish Department shall be examined and laboratory tested for the presence of pathogens as follows:

The Arizona Game and Fish Department Director or the Director's designee shall prescribe examinations and laboratory testing for the presence of pathogens.

An Arizona licensed veterinarian shall perform examinations and laboratory test specimen collection and submission.

An Arizona licensed veterinarian examining or laboratory testing a primate shall immediately report the results of an examination or laboratory test, by phone and in writing, to the Arizona Game and Fish Department Director or the Director's designee.

The legal owner of the primate shall pay all costs associated with the examination, laboratory testing, and maintenance of the primate.

F. A primate that tests positive for a zoonotic disease that poses a serious health risk to humans, as determined by the Arizona Game and Fish Department, shall be maintained in captivity as directed by the Arizona Game and Fish Department Director or the Director's designee, or disposed of as agreed to by the primate owner and the Department Director or the Director's designee.

If I am not mistaken in my reading it's illegal with out a Wildlife Holding Permit for any and all species identified here to include rattlesnakes. Please do correct me if I am wrong. I mean as is I the bills s373 and hr669 will basically make everything illegal should the prez sign them except native species. Maybe I am far to passionate about herpetology and such but I do not think I am reading this wrong

Karen ✆

to Gabriel, me

show details Aug 7 (5 days ago)

Good eye. I noticed that as well. I'm cc'd our Law Enforcement Program Manager in case I say anything wrong. From what I learned, the R12-4-401 is not correct/outdated. You are allowed to have rattlesnakes, just not the ones mentioned in the reptile pamphlet/regulations. Gabe, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Karen Wildlife Manager Region V


Kalina Jaggers ✆

to Karen

show details Aug 7 (5 days ago)

Well considering that people are not the most intelligent when it comes to keeping these animals I do not see why this shouldn't still be in effect. It seems the department could use the funds from the permits issued as well as their being documentation of what is where. Having to pass an inspection to keep an animal that can kill you or someone else and pay a fee for the permission to have it isn't that bad if you are really wanting it. I had looked into it years ago and could meet all the requirements then it really isn't hard. even Missouri has laws about venomous snake keeping with needing permits etc. My biggest concern is the fact that the venom in western species of rattlesnakes is changing, they do not know which way it is going and any anti-venom is at best a 50/50 should someone get bit. Also if someone gets careless it wouldn't be so hard and pointless to figure out. Those responsible would be at fault not everyone who chooses to keep them and follow the necessary steps to do so. Especially with the entire reptile community fighting s373 and hr669 can we afford anymore negative media attention? Personally if I had a choice in banning between banning large pythons vs pit vipers I think the choice would be clear no to the vipers permits for everything else and there wouldnt be another repeat of Florida.

Gabriel Paz ✆

to Karen, me

show details Aug 9 (3 days ago)

You both have done quit a bit ofcorrespondence regarding this issue so please forgive me if I don'tanswer all of your questions. It is lawful to take and possess rattlesnakesalive in this state with a hunting license. I referenced most of the laws thatpertain to what you are talking about.

Restricted Live Wildlife pertains towildlife that cannot be possessed alive (without a license) or imported. Snakes taken with a hunting license can be possessed alive or dead percommission order 43.

The live wildlife rule would restrictsomeone from bringing animals listed in that rule into the state. What thatmeans is that it is unlawful to bring rattlesnakes into the state.

17-306. Importation,transportation, release or possession of live wildlife

No person shall importor transport into the state or sell, trade or release within the state or have in his possession any live wildlife except asauthorized by the commission or as defined in title 3, chapter 16.

17-331. License or proof ofpurchase required; violation of child support order

A. Except as providedby this title or commission order, a personshall not take any wildlife in this state without a valid license or acommission approved proof of purchase. The person shall carry the license orproof of purchase and produce it upon request to any game ranger, wildlifemanager or peace officer.

17-307. Possession, storage,sale and gift of the carcass or parts thereof of wildlife

A.The carcass or parts thereof of wildlife lawfully obtained in accordance withthe provisions of this title and commission regulations may be possessed by theperson taking such wildlife.

B. The carcass orparts thereof of wildlife lawfully obtained may be placed in storage inaccordance with the provisions of this title.

C. The carcass orparts thereof of wildlife lawfully produced by or lawfully obtained from acommercial wildlife breeding or processing establishment may be sold in thisstate.

D. A person may make agift of the carcass or parts thereof of his lawfully obtained wildlife, or hemay have it prepared in a public eating place and served to himself and hisguests.

R12-4-401

LiveWildlife Definitions

Inaddition to definitions given in A.R.S. § 17-101, and for the purposes of thisArticle, the following definitions apply:

24. "Restricted livewildlife" means wildlife that cannot be imported, exported, or possessedwithout a special license or lawful exemption. Restricted live wildlifeare listed in R12-4-406.

26."Special license" means any permit or license issued under thisArticle, including any additional stipulations placed on the license thatauthorizes specific activities normally prohibited by A.R.S. § 17-306 andR12-4-402.

Commissionorder 43 allows the take of reptiles excluding section E.

Reptiles: Commission Order 43Statewide — As defined inA.R.S.17-101, excluding wildlife areas not opened for hunting (R12-4-802). OpenAreas do not include any area closed to hunting, fishing, or trapping underA.R.S.17-303, 304, or Commission Rules R12-4-301, R12-4-801-803.

E. There is no open season on Phrynosoma mcallii (flat-tailedhorned lizard), Heloderma suspectum (Gila monster), Crotalus lepidus (rockrattlesnake), Crotalus pricei (twin-spotted rattlesnake), Crotalus willardi(ridge-nosed rattlesnake), Lampropeltis triangulum (milksnake; Cochise Countyonly), Sistrurus catenatus (massasauga), Thamnophis eques (Mexicangartersnake), Thamnophis rufipunctatus (narrow-headed gartersnake), Gopherusagassizii (desert tortoise), and Terrapene ornata (ornate box turtle); seeNotes 3 and 4.

Reptile Notes:

1.A hunting or combination license is required for take ofreptilesotherthansoftshellturtles.Reptilesmaybetaken day or night. SeeR12-4-304 for restrictions on the use of artificial light. By law, softshellturtles are considered aquatic wildlife and a fishing or combination license isrequired for take. Methods of take are prescribed at R12-4-313(E).

2.Per R12-4-404, progeny of lawfully held reptiles other thandesert tortoises may, for twelve months from date of hatching or birth, be heldin captivity in excess of the stated limits. Before or upon reaching twelvemonths of age, such progeny must be disposed of by gift to another person or asdirected by the Department.

3.Per R12-4-407.1, desert tortoises legally held prior to April28, 1989, may be possessed, transported and propagated. Possession limit is onedesert tortoise per person. Progeny of lawfully held desert tortoises may, fortwenty-four months from date of hatching, be held in captivity in excess of thestated limit. Before or upon reaching twenty-four months of age, such progenymust be disposed of by gift to another person or as directed by the Department.

4.The possession limit for massasaugas legally held prior toJanuary 1, 1989, when season closure went into effect, is four (4) per person.The possession limit for Mexican gartersnakes, narrow-headed gartersnakes, andornate box turtles legally held prior to January 1, 2005, when season closure went into effect,is four (4) per person. See Note 2.

R12-4-402

LiveWildlife: Unlawful Acts

A. An individual shall not perform any of the following activitieswith live wildlife unless authorized by this Chapter or A.R.S. Title 3, Chapter16:

1. Import any live wildlife into the state;

2. Export any live wildlife from the state;

3. Transport, possess, offer for sale, sell, sell as live bait,trade, give away, purchase, rent, lease, display, exhibit, propagate, stock, orrelease live wildlife within the state; or

4. Kill any captive live wildlife;

B. If an individual lawfully possesses wildlife, but holds it in amanner that poses an actual or potential threat to other wildlife, or thesafety, health, or welfare of the public, the Department shall seize,quarantine, or hold the wildlife.

Gabriel Paz

Law Enforcement Program Manager, Tucson

Arizona Game and Fish Department


Kalina Jaggers ✆

to Gabriel

show details 3:09 PM (7 hours ago)

Well I have done some more research and as of July 1, 2010 these laws are in effect. I have attached them and you may recognize them as they are the first one i asked about. Now I ask how is a Water Buffalo not a dangerous animal but a hedge hog is? A tetra is a dangerous animal yes all tetra includinge the ones sold in walmart this is as of July 1, 2010....any thoughts? here is the link and I have attached the file as well. It could be just me but a Water Buffalo, known to kill people and lions in Africa, is far more dangerous than a tetra, or hedgehog even a thick billed parrot for that matter. Is it just me or is it absurd?http://usark.org/uploads/AZhb2375.pdf

again maybe it's just me but maybe it should be really pointed out that water buffalo are dangerous.

please input is much appreciated

- Show quoted text -

On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Gabriel Paz <GPaz@azgfd.gov> wrote:

- Show quoted text -

Gabriel Paz ✆

to me

show details 3:51 PM (6 hours ago)

The law that you are referring to was anew law passed by an outside organization so I am not familiar with all the logic that went into this new law.

The water buffalo they are referring to is from the genus Bubalus which are buffalo from Asia that have been domesticated around the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_Buffalo

The dangerous ones that are well known forbeing dangerous would be the African genus Syncerus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_buffalo

Gabriel Paz

Law Enforcement Program Manager, Tucson

Arizona Game and Fish Department


Kalina Jaggers ✆

to Gabriel

show details 6:54 PM (3 hours ago)

the owning of any dangerous animal before july 1st 2010 is ok as long as requirements are met it not only protect the safety of the public but our native wildlife having rare rattlesnakes here it's imperative to protect them. It also protects those willing to abide the laws and follow the necessary steps for keeping these animals. The logic that went into these laws minus the water buffalo which all species have been proven unpredictable protect every one including fish and game. It keeps people from keeping venomous snakes as a status pet (may not be right term I'd use over compensation or ego boost) It ensures that any "Dangerous Wildlife" as listed is kept healthy and registered meaning more money for the state when purchasing permits. it ensures any escaped animal is traceable, it ensures the community holding these animals is not punished as a whole but those individuals not following the laws. They are very specific for the most part though I admit some things do need to be rethought. But the law is better than banning everything from everyone. It keeps responsible people able to keep their animals and irresponsible ones punished for the mistreatment and or safety hazards to the public and native wildlife. It gives Fish and Game more authority as far as conservation and stopping the illegal sale import export breeding and unwanted release of possible disease to wildlife such as Crotalus willardi. It's not perfect no law is but there is room for compromise. However as avid as I am about the ability to keep reptiles that one wishes with in reason I understand the importance of safety and proper training to keep such animals as rattlesnakes. I am by no means opposed to it but there is a way for the state to make money and increase jobs again here, a boost to the economy if you will. I see the rights in these laws as well as the over exaggeration of some. I see the potential in it though and it isn't bad if you ask me a little work here and there like rattlesnakes ok with a permit after so many hours of training on how to safely transport clean feed prep for medical attention.....keeping records is a must with these animals it could be life or death in most cases. Especially now with the venom changing before our eyes. I may seem like I am rambling and I do apologize but I am passionate about protecting the native wildlife and the public there being a right and wrong way to do things. There is always a risk working with wild animals as they are just that wild animals. I've worked with lions, tigers, crocodylians (camien to nile crocs), true vipers and rattlesnakes danger in inevitable but laws like these eliminate a lot and protect everyone.- Show quoted text -

Gabriel Paz ✆

to me

show details 9:32 PM (48 minutes ago)

Good point.

Actually they we're already restricted to possess before the law from our commission rule.

Gabriel PazLaw Enforcement Program Manager,Tucson

Message sent by Blackberry.




Sorry so long had to spread it ugh wouldn't fit....I think I could have encouraged something positive IDK any thoughts

Odd screen name. Useful post. :D

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Originally Posted by Soterios

Odd screen name. Useful post. :D

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Screen name is due to me being Jewish and Cherokee hehe Jewskin and I hope the post helps I found our laws here to be slightly special

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Originally Posted by JEWSKIN

Screen name is due to me being Jewish and Cherokee hehe Jewskin and I hope the post helps I found our laws here to be slightly special

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I think you should change it to "Chewish" :P

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Originally Posted by Soterios

I think you should change it to "Chewish" :P

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lol yeah theres more story behind it but you can pm me for it

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Originally Posted by lehua768

Screen name is due to me being Jewish and Cherokee hehe Jewskin and I hope the post helps I found our laws here to be slightly special.You both have done quit a bit ofcorrespondence regarding this issue so please forgive me if I don'tanswer all of your questions. It is lawful to take and possess rattlesnakesalive in this state with a hunting license. I referenced most of the laws thatpertain to what you are talking about.Restricted Live Wildlife pertains towildlife that cannot be possessed alive (without a license) or imported. Snakes taken with a hunting license can be possessed alive or dead percommission order 43.The live wildlife rule would restrictsomeone from bringing animals listed in that rule into the state. What thatmeans is that it is unlawful to bring rattlesnakes into the state.306. Importation,transportation, release or possession of live wildlifeNo person shall importor transport into the state or sell, trade or release within the state or have in his possession any live wildlife except asauthorized by the commission or as defined in title 3, chapter.

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um i am slightly confused as to your question...however, talking back and forth with fish and game these laws here in this link http://usark.org/statelaws.php?state=AZ are valid as of July 1, 2010 basically to sum it up you cannot own any animal listed as dangerous wildlife with out a permit not even rattlesnakes. The laws have room for compromise which is good and it appears fish and game is willing to think about some of the suggestions as it would benefit everyone. Oh and yeah tetra are "Dangerous Animals" though an Asian water buffalo is not and they are ok to own as listed about with out a permit

Tetra fish probably are felt to pose a high risk of becoming established in the local waterways. Additionally, they may harbor diseases which could be transmitted to native fish.

Water buffalo are used to plow fields in Asia, and farmers who have some unusual livestock may want to have them. Since that's a domesticated animal, and poses relatively little threat of establishing a wild breeding population, there's no reason to bar them. They're vaccinated the way cattle are.

So, the real concern here isn't a danger to people, it's a danger to local wildlife.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

Tetra fish probably are felt to pose a high risk of becoming established in the local waterways. Additionally, they may harbor diseases which could be transmitted to native fish.

Water buffalo are used to plow fields in Asia, and farmers who have some unusual livestock may want to have them. Since that's a domesticated animal, and poses relatively little threat of establishing a wild breeding population, there's no reason to bar them. They're vaccinated the way cattle are.

So, the real concern here isn't a danger to people, it's a danger to local wildlife.

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here is the issues let me make these clear so every one understands fish and game here had said their laws passed in 09/10, which are the same as above passed 7-1-10, were out dated and incorrect. I was told with a hunting license you could collect and keep however many rattlesnakes you wanted and keep them HOWEVER YOU WANTED. They were saying you could keep them in unsecured cages, cages to small, not properly labeled, not letting anyone know you had them, if you got bit or someone else did including a small child wasn't their issue. Essentially you could be irresponsible with rattlesnakes but lord for bid you have tetra (sold at pet stores here and Wal-Mart), or anything else in their pamphlet. You know those sheets of paper folded into thirds with scattered info yeah those. Here in Cochise county our major water way is the San Pedro River which is for the most part under ground and one of two river that run south to north. It's dry surface wise most of the year. Bull frogs found all around here including the at the river are illegal.....with the new law (or not so new) it is illegal to own any of these "Dangerous Animals" if you read carefully I point out that yes the laws could you some adjustments. I also pointed out in adjusting these laws there is opportunity for more employment and a boost to the states economy if they make owning rattlesnakes ok with x amount of hours in classes for safe handling, transport, feeding, medical, housing etc on these animals. Classes they could offer where also an annual permit would be required and inspection of set up and plan should the inevitable happen and someone gets bit. Having worked with venomous snakes, exotic cat and crocodilians I know all to well it's not if, it's when. However, people wanting to keep these beautiful animals could follow simple steps to own them legally so the community is not punished as a whole just those that do not abide the laws. Simple compromise after making them aware that yes these laws give them the ability to actually do there job here and protect the wildlife and public. Tetra could not survive the winters here in Cochise county and honestly it's absurd that coming out of Wal-Mart with tetra for your kids could be at the right moment a class 2 misdemeanor where walking down the street with a water buffalo (all be it "domesticated" is no problem). Again the laws can use work and there is a lot of room for compromise hence things are moving that way instead of banning everything and making everyone a criminal. Do note the set of laws I got are the same ones passed this july.......they said outdated and incorrect but I went straight to them and asked them for a copy of laws as opposed to looking it up online and getting the run around.

So here is an update just got this.....wow


Kalina Jaggers ✆
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Kalina Jaggers <kalina.jaggers@...

Aug 13 (2 days ago)
Reply
|
Karen Klima ✆
to me

show details 2:17 PM (1 hour ago)

Haha, I was shocked when I learned that hedgehogs were illegal. I don't have any good explanation for what lawmakers decide...

Karen
Wildlife Manager Region V




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