Bad mother

Momma rat with babys 4 alive 2 stillborn and 4 in and around the nest cold but alive ,deadbeat mom or will she get better at it??she is with a female and male in concrete mixing tub.side note, female from same tub separated, full litter all doing good.........

thnx Snakefreak64

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snakefreak64

Momma rat with babys 4 alive 2 stillborn and 4 in and around the nest cold but alive ,deadbeat mom or will she get better at it??she is with a female and male in concrete mixing tub.side note, female from same tub separated, full litter all doing good.........

thnx Snakefreak64

---

When it happens to me, I take the ratterlings and put them with the good mother and dispatch the bad mother.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by broadude

When it happens to me, I take the ratterlings and put them with the good mother and dispatch the bad mother.

---

yes , "dispatch", lol..o.k thats what I was thinking, but didnt want to jump the gun?

It sounds like a young, inexperienced mother. Place her in a bin with a mother that knows how to take care of her young, and I'm sure she'll pick up on how it's done.

I usually keep 2 to 3 females together and rotate the males around. The mothers will share the responsibility of taking care of the young.

Personally I would add another female or two to the tub. It seems to me if I have too few females they're constantly being bothered by the male and won't spend as much time with the kids. Another alternative is to set the mom and kids up in their own maternity tub so she can care for them without distractions.

Maternity is not something animals learn. It is instinctive. Either they have it or they don't. I tried the "nice" way before, usually ended up with her never getting pregnant again or chewing up a baby or two or just living getting fat.

But hey, I could be wrong this time. :)

In my experience, I don't take the males out..I haven't noticed that it keeps any of the females from taking care of their kits (but then I have several females to a tub).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by broadude

Maternity is not something animals learn. It is instinctive. Either they have it or they don't. I tried the "nice" way before, usually ended up with her never getting pregnant again or chewing up a baby or two or just living getting fat.

But hey, I could be wrong this time. :)

In my experience, I don't take the males out..I haven't noticed that it keeps any of the females from taking care of their kits (but then I have several females to a tub).

---

That's true, maternal instincts in rats are a combination of a specific gene and elevated oxytocin levels. However, that doesn't mean an intelligent species can't benefit from observing an experienced mother. Also, quite often another female rat will take over the care of the kits from a mother with too many kits or one that is experiencing problems.

As far as leaving the males with the mothers, I personally prefer taking the males away as rats can become pregnant again within 24 hours of giving birth. I like to give my females a break after they wean a litter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xdeus

That's true, maternal instincts in rats are a combination of a specific gene and elevated oxytocin levels. However, that doesn't mean an intelligent species can't benefit from observing an experienced mother. Also, quite often another female rat will take over the care of the kits from a mother with too many kits or one that is experiencing problems.

As far as leaving the males with the mothers, I personally prefer taking the males away as rats can become pregnant again within 24 hours of giving birth. I like to give my females a break after they wean a litter.

---

I agree with what you are saying. I just want to sort of defend my opinion here because the rat in question doesn't have too many babies, so she actually should not be having any problems imo. While the male can make her pregnant again, she has to be willing. Most nursing mothers, in my observation, do not let the male bother them when they are nursing (this has been my experience and he has other females to bother so this takes some of the onus off the nursing mother.

Lastly, it bothered me that those kits were cold. Usually when it reaches this point, the female has been neglecting them so they are both cold and starving (no white line across ratterlings lower belly means no milk)?

Putting the neglecting female with other nursing mothers at this point, may get some one killed. Either her from being the new comer and disrupting the established system in the tub, or she may eat the babies already in there or keep the other rats away from her ratterlings, so that they can't be taken care of. Lastly, if the neglecting female is put in there WITH her kits, and the male is left in there, it's possible he will kill off her kits, they aren't his (I don't set up possible canibalism opportunities..it's easier to prevent than to stop). BUT, it's been my experience that if I jumble in the neglected kits among the already established kits and mix the smells up then they are accepted and not killed.

For me, it's just too many variables to risk disrupting an established colony for a female that has proven herself not to be an "instinctual" mother. I would give the babies a chance, but she would have to go (but then I really have too many rats to be taking chances like this).

OP, there's lots of good suggestions here. Good luck with your decision!:)

lol. well back to square one?but I do know seperate mom good, mom with male bad........tubs have 3 to 1 so that only leaves 2 females with the male? something to do with her neglect ?i dont know, in her nest 4 live babys and in the edges(buried) 3-4 cold and neglected. I was really surprised to see it. I was also told for maximum production to leave females with the males( while nursing )so they could get prego again......:rolleye2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snakefreak64

lol. well back to square one?but I do know seperate mom good, mom with male bad........tubs have 3 to 1 so that only leaves 2 females with the male? something to do with her neglect ?i dont know, in her nest 4 live babys and in the edges(buried) 3-4 cold and neglected. I was really surprised to see it. I was also told for maximum production to leave females with the males( while nursing )so they could get prego again......:rolleye2:

---

Some of us do leave the Males with the nursing females that they impregnated. I have had no bad experiences in doing so (but again when they males get really big, I dispatch them and put in a younger male (fat males tend to get lazy). I also leave several female pups in with the colony as I take out the weaners so that they can grow..as they grow and the adults get old and die or dispatched, there is always a fresh supply of females for the males to impregnate.

What I suggest is to look over all the options/suggestions given, and find something that works for you. My way may not be everyone's way, but it works for me and I am always having to freeze my surplus of weanlings, small rats, med, big and huge rats.

I feed my rats good, I am not prone to keeping non-producing or problem rats on the payroll.:)