Out of the egg eating F/T.

The story behind the thought. (Keep in mind this is a double headed question)

I am in the middle of purchasing a couple new females, a black pastel and het pied. They are very small, 50 and 56 grams respectively. An alarm went off in my head but I don't know why. If there is anything wrong with getting ball pythons that small, please let me know. They have been eating live mice of the approriate size.

With the prospect of getting these two ladies I thought about ordering some frozen rats and mice from RodentPro. It's getting cost effective with six possible snakes.

These two are very small and I would do whatever they need but do babies take frozen mice or rats(pinkies)? I'm not thrilled with trying to convert them to F/T and rats at the same time especially at their weight. Does anyone feed newly hatched ball pythons frozen rodents?


On a side note I think I've learned to tell the difference between a black pastel and cinnamon. The black pastel has yellow on the dorsal spots and eyebrows/mustaches around the alien heads.

Some pictures of the potential kids:


Black Pastel:

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/b...ckPastelF1.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/b...ckPastelF2.jpg


Het Pied:

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/b.../HetPiedF1.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/b.../HetPiedF2.jpg

I'd have the seller hang onto them for a while, until they're a bit larger and feeding reliably. (100 grams plus?) You don't want to get them home that tiny and then find out they're not going to eat what you offer them. A hunger strike for a baby that small could be deadly.

Could just be me, but something doesn't look right with them. Perhaps it's just that they're so small.

I wouldn't risk buying a snake that small... But that's just me.

they do better on live than f/t. Once they have eaten for you day in day out consistantly then offer pre kill and work your way to f/t.

My 09s are eating live,pre kill,f/t rats or mice. Just need to work with them

I wouldn't sell any of my bp hatchlings that small, nor would I buy one that small (unless the breeder was local to me and I knew them personally.)

In my way of thinking the breeder should really make sure they are eating consistently and not sell them until they have some weight on them. After being shipped and then in a new environment that could be quite different from what it was used to those balls could be at your house in a quite stressed state. Remember, it's not uncommon for new (to you) bp to not eat right away. Especially if they haven't had that many meals in them.

Most of the time I can get them to convert to F/T by the second or third feeding.

They are tiny--I have had hatchlings come out of the egg heavier than that. I had one little female hatch out at 34 grams. Those babies have some of the look of that little 'preemie'. I think it's caused by a problem with the umbilicus, so that the snake doesn't get as much nourishment from the yolk as most do. After 3 feedings, she was 52 grams and healthy.
Ask what these babies' hatching weight was. That's the real way to determine if there's a problem. The folks advising caution are right, but the 34 gram girl is healthy, strong, and feisty, and growing like a weed. She no longer has that slightly odd look to her.

If they were born small, and they've grown to that size, and are eating probably OK. Like WWP said, I, too had an entire clutch this year where the eggs were small and the babies were small. Most were in the 30g range when they hatched. But they all ate and all grew. After several meals they were in the 50g range and ready for homes.

As for converting to f/t, in my experience if they have a wicked strong feeding response, those are usually the 1st to switch.

They can be that small for various reasons

I would ask the following to the breeder

Hatch date, weight out of the eggs and how many meals they have taken so far (This should give you an idea on whether they started out very small or were very slow to start)

I would recommend to feed the same prey type for at least 3 consecutive meal to make sure they are eating for you.

If you don’t and if you offer another type of prey (rats instead of mice) and F/T instead of live they will likely refuse food and at such a small size it would not be recommended to have them refuse a meal for several weeks.

Get them to eat first (Live mice) and then once they are well acclimated and established try to switch them, if they have a strong feeding response it should be quite easy, and remember one step at the time will make it easier as well (from mice to rat and than from live to F/T or vice versa)

Quote:

---

They are very small, 50 and 56 grams respectively. An alarm went off in my head but I don't know why.

---

I think you nailed it in the butt with those two sentences. My gut instinct on the pictures of those girls is that they aren't established enough to take them in right now. They look weak like my albino and het albino did. It took treating them for mites and a trip to the vet to treat for upper RI, and now after cultures were done and medications have been given ($$$), they are now eating live food on their own. I'm grateful for that.

Similar to snakelady, I will not buy or sell animals of that size again, its not sensible as they are fragile at that size.

On another note... my normal female who was about 3-5 months old and of a good size, she very willingly took to the frozen thawed. The others, it took a bit of patience and extra effort on my part.

If you want a good source of frozen rodents without the cost of shipping, then PM me, I know of a breeder who comes through from the Fresno area up to Hayward and down to San Jose every week. :)