I still dont get it ?

Hello ,
I still dont get how you get hets and stuff ...
Well i know if you breed a Recessive with a Recessive you will get a het for the BP you are trying to produce like piebald x piebald you would get het for piebald . But what if you why trying to make Codominant with a recessive ? Or recessive with Dominant ? Or Dominant with codominant ?
Please help ...
But when you are trying to explain can you give me examples like albino x albino = het for albino , because they are both recessive ...
Thanks Very much
Josh :gj:

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Originally Posted by joza123

Well i know if you breed a Recessive with a Recessive you will get a het for the BP you are trying to produce like piebald x piebald you would get het for piebald .

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Not quite. There are two ways your snakes can have a gene, they can either be heterozygous (het) for it, where, basically, they only have half the gene, or homozygous, where they have the whole gene.

They are considered "visual" recessives when they are homozygous and you can see the trait.

A recessive snake has both genes necessary to show the trait, so it can only pass on the recessive gene. If you mix two like recessive snakes (albino x albino, ghost x ghost, pied x pied, etc), you will have a clutch of 100% homozygous recessive snakes, or "visual" recessives (so a full clutch of albinos, ghosts, pieds, etc)

A recessive snake bred by a normal snake will produce 100% het snakes for whatever the gene is (so albino x normal = clutch of 100% het albinos).

A co-dominant gene is actually an incomplete dominant gene, where your snake is "het" for whatever complete dominant gene (supers) is, but it happens to be visual. A pastel x normal makes a clutch of 50% normals, 50% pastels. A super pastel is homozygous for pastel, so it can only pass on the pastel gene. Therefore, a super pastel x normal makes a clutch of (het) pastels. They are not called het pastels because you can see the morph, even though it is an incomplete gene.

You can also breed snakes that are heterozygous with snakes that are homozygous, resulting in a different distribution of genes. A het albino x albino cross gives you 50% albinos and 50% het albinos. The het albinos are 100% het for albino because they definitely carry the recessive gene. When you mix a het albino x het albino, your clutch should come out as 25% albino, 50% het albino, 25% normal. Since the hets and normals look the same, they are all considered to be 66% possible het albino, since 2/3 of the non-visual snakes are heterozygous for albino, but you can't tell just by looking at them exactly which ones.

Co-dominants, when bred to a normal, produce 50% co-doms, 50% normals. These are easy to tell because the incomplete dominant genes show. When you breed pastel x pastel, your clutch looks like the het to het above, 25% super pastel, 50% pastel, and 25% normal. With a crossing like that, you don't have possible hets because you can see which ones are pastel and which are normal.

Beyond that, if you want to make combo snakes, the genetics get a bit fussier. I can go into it, if you'd like, but I recommend wrapping your mind around the single genes first, since all of it builds on itself.

Hope that helps!

Well i would like you to carry on please ...
But if i bred a Killer Clown = Super Pastel x clown what would they turn out as ?

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Originally Posted by joza123

Well i would like you to carry on please ...
But if i bred a Killer Clown = Super Pastel x clown what would they turn out as ?

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You should get all pastel clowns from that pair.

http://www.ballpython.ca/genetics.html

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Originally Posted by jason79

You should get all pastel clowns from that pair.

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No. The super pastel has to be het for clown to produce any clowns in that paring. Clowns are recessive
killer clown x clown will result in clowns and so on.

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Originally Posted by joza123

Well i would like you to carry on please ...
But if i bred a Killer Clown = Super Pastel x clown what would they turn out as ?

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pastel clown x pastel clown =

clowns
pastel clowns
killer clowns

super pastel x clown =
pastels het clown

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Originally Posted by flameethrower

No. The super pastel has to be het for clown to produce any clowns in that paring. Clowns are recessive
killer clown x clown will result in clowns and so on.

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I thought he ment killer clown x clown. not super pastel x clown.

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Originally Posted by jason79

I thought he ment killer clown x clown. not super pastel x clown.

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That pairing will result is pastel clowns.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joza123

Well i would like you to carry on please ...
But if i bred a Killer Clown = Super Pastel x clown what would they turn out as ?

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Sure :)

Alright, if I'm not mistaken, a killer clown is a super pastel clown, yes? That would make it homozygous for two genes, clown (recessive) and pastel (co-dominant). One is recessive, one is co-dominant. There are a few ways you can get a visual killer clown, but you have to have a double homozygous snake.

First, you can breed two killer clowns together, but that would be expensive, boring, and just too easy :P

Second, you can breed a killer clown to a pastel clown, and achieve 50% killer clowns, 50% pastel clowns.

Third, you can breed two pastel clowns together and keep your fingers crossed. 25% killer clowns, 50% pastel clowns, 25% clowns.

Notice the first three options require you to have a homozygous clown that is at least het for pastel (or visual pastel, since it is co-dominant). Your next options are to work with snakes that are heterozygous for clown and pastel (which can be achieved through breeding a visual clown to a pastel ball python, I'll get to those in a minute).

Fourth, breed a pastel het clown with a super pastel het clown. Your odds here are the best of your het clown options. 12.5% will be killer clowns, 25% super pastels het for clown,12.5% pastel clowns, 12.5% pastel het clown, 12.5% super pastel, and 12.5% pastel. My brain is a bit fried ATM, but I know that your pastels that are het for clown would be considered possible hets because you can't tell who is carrying the recessive clown gene.

Fifth, breed a pastel het clown with a pastel het clown. These odds are hard to hit, but not impossible. 6.25% killer clown (1/16 odds), 12.5% pastel clowns, 6.25% clown, 12.5% super pastel het clown, 25% pastel het clown, 6.25% super pastel, 12.5% pastel, 6.25% het clown, and 6.25% normal. Again, your pastels/normals/super pastels will all be possible hets because it is impossible to tell which is carrying the recessive gene.

The way I am figuring these percentages is by using a punnett square. These are usually covered in basic biology, and without a diagram, I don't have much of a way to explain them. I could probably whip one up when I get home from work tonight, though, or you can check out Wikipedia or Google to learn more about them. That is where the heterozygous & homozygous stuff really comes into play.

I went over in my other post how to achieve 100% het recessive ball pythons in my last post, by breeding recessive x normal. The same is true if you're seeking a 100% het recessive that is also a co-dominant. Breed a recessive to a co-dominant (so albino x pastel) and you will have a clutch of half 100% albinos, and half 100% pastels het albino. For the pastel het clown, just substitute clown where I have albino.

If you breed two unlike homozygous morph snakes together, you will get snakes that are heterozygous for both traits. This is true of both recessive and co-dominant (or super, in this case) snakes. So, a super pastel x albino results in snakes that are 100% pastels het albino. Or, an albino x clown makes a clutch of snakes that are 100% double het for albino and clown. Or, a super mojave (Blue eyed lucy) x super pastel makes a clutch full of pastel mojaves, or pastaves.

I hope that makes sense... feel free to ask any more questions, I'm happy to clarify!