HSUS BS... and some USGS

You knew this one was coming... :mad: More fear-mongering crap from HSUS!

http://hsus.typepad.com/wayne/2009/1...nd-hisses.html

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When you add in the threat to humans, and the suffering that the snakes themselves endure in the trade, then the case for a trade ban for all of these snakes is overwhelming.

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Also, has anyone seen the USGS report? I urge you to take a look at the map on page 83 of the pdf (numbered 63 on the actual report), and the preceding paragraph on page 82. I've read most of the P. molurus section, and it seems they are STILL ignoring the fact that there is little risk of P. molurus molurus (the Indian python) establishing itself because there are so few of them in the U.S. They don't really talk too much about the differences in climate tolerance between the two subspecies (molurus and bivittatus), which I remember reading about in Dave and Tracy Barker's article. Instead, that map (which will likely be spreading like wildfire across the internet soon) talks about the forecast American range for the entire species...

http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2009/1202/pdf/OF09-1202.pdf

Other than that, the report seemed fairly unbiased, though I have yet to read most of it. The first section is an overview. And they actually do admit that efforts at eradication of the Burmese python from the everglades probably won't work.

Eradication of an introduced species is rarely successful. That does not mean that an attempt to control the population should not be made.

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Originally Posted by zoologist

Eradication of an introduced species is rarely successful. That does not mean that an attempt to control the population should not be made.

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one could argue that either way. then again one could also look to actual proof before making a statement that they are breeding. especially to say hundreds of thousands when yet only under 20 have been actually caught.

I don't believe that there is much of an arguement for allowing introduced species to go unattended. However, it is obvious that the media has blown the situation out of proportion. Will they spread across the U.S.? No. I do believe they are speading in south florida however. I Worked for the NPS at Big Cypress NP and have handled 1 road kill sub adult burm and have heard a first hand account of a wildlife biologist seeing one alive. This is proof that they are spreading north.

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Originally Posted by zoologist

I don't believe that there is much of an arguement for allowing introduced species to go unattended. However, it is obvious that the media has blown the situation out of proportion. Will they spread across the U.S.? No. I do believe they are speading in south florida however. I Worked for the NPS at Big Cypress NP and have handled 1 road kill sub adult burm and have heard a first hand account of a wildlife biologist seeing one alive. This is proof that they are spreading north.

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i was referring to "Eradication of an introduced species is rarely successful"
it can be disputed either way.

It usually only works if you can catch it before the population expands and produces multiple generations.

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Originally Posted by zoologist

Eradication of an introduced species is rarely successful. That does not mean that an attempt to control the population should not be made.

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I agree with you. At least progress could be made in slowing them down and cutting their numbers to some degree. Not sure why they assigned Gordon Rodda to this project, though. He doesn't exactly have the best track record with controlling invasive reptile species.

What I don't like is when people like HSUS come along and putting it all on the pet industry, and start to insinuate that, because Burmese are invading South Florida, they should be banned nationwide. This doesn't address the problem at all, and in fact would probably make it worse as people who owned the animals might be tempted to release them outside, if and when they were made illegal. Plus, I'd argue that an outright, nationwide ban is infringing on American personal freedoms.

The USGS report doesn't seem biased to me, though. I'm learning a good deal from reading through it.

Judging by the top of page 80 on the pdf (numbered 60 on the actual document), it seems like the reptile imports business could use some better regulation and management. It would be nice if, instead of banning Burmese importation outright, Burmese python importers could deliver to a port further up the coast, where winters would be cold enough to wipe out any escapee populations. The numbers of Burmese coming in could also be limited, so that Burm breeders would have the chance to acquire new morphs with a lesser risk of further introduction of the species to the U.S. But, maybe that's a pipe dream, and maybe it's far more feasible (economically and logistically) to just cut out the Burm importers alltogether... Sigh :(

Well... there's my :2cent: for you...

Maybe if we had people with common sense (like you and I) making laws, a compromise could be made. I don't believe that we really need too many more import burms. If they are banned from import then it's no big deal because they've been around for years and many people breed them. The problem lies in the regulation, both for and against. Without regulation, natural populations continue to be depleted from their environment. On the other hand, If they regulate or limit only a few specimens per species to be imported, it could hurt the market by giving only a few individuals control of new species. /end tangent

There have been very few people. I stress VERY few. That i can honestly say i hate. But i really HATE the hsus.. Their disgusting commercials pulling at the heart strings of people to donate. Their lies about what they do and how they spend their money. I could go on forever but it just angers me to think about it.