BEL's

Can anyone give me a quick rundown of the different ways to get all white morphs such as BEL's black or blue?! I know Ivories.I am trying to decide what my next purchase for breeding is,I would like to produce my own preferably blue-eyed even if it takes me 4= yrs.

mojave X mojave = BEL
lesser X lesser = BEL
Butter X butter = BEL
or any combo of the above fire X fire makes the black eyed lucy

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Originally Posted by ARpythons

mojave X mojave = BEL
lesser X lesser = BEL
Butter X butter = BEL
or any combo of the above fire X fire makes the black eyed lucy

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So if got this straight Mojave x Lesser Platinum = BEL as well?! I think I got it figured out now thanx:gj:

Russo (het leucistic) combined with the above (and other Russos) also produce BELs.

Lets see how many edits it takes for me to remember them all …

There appears to be at least three different gene locus that have at least some mutations that can create white ball pythons. Each locus has several different known mutations (alleles) and not all combinations within the same complex make a white snake and crosses between the complexes also don't seem to make white snakes.

1. Lesser/Butter, Mojave, Phantom/Mystic, Vin Russo, Mocha, Hidden, Special. I’ve not seen all combinations of the different mutations of this same gene reported yet but so far most combos are white with blue eyes with the exception of Lesser\\Hidden = Platy, Mojave\\Mystic = Mystic Potion, Phantom\\Phantom = Super Phantom, Mojave\\Special = Crystal. I'm probably missing some and I know of at least one unknown source girl that combines with Lesser to make a white snake that hasn't been named yet or proven if it's the same as one or different than all the other named alleles (saw a young adult combo the other day with a little yellow ting, very nice). Also, not sure if Lesser and Butter are the same or different and the same for Phantom and Mystic.

2. Fire, Sulfur. The super of both of these is a black eyed leucistic with yellow spots. Forget if they have been crossed to be certain they are compatible but seems very likely and might well be proven. I believe that Amir has another line that MIGHT not have the yellow spots but I don't even know the name or if that trend of no yellow has held.

3. Yellow Belly, Whirlwind/Specter. The homozygous Yellow Belly is the Ivory, a mostly white snake with some yellow spread throughout the body (unlike the yellow splotches on the homozygous fire). Not sure if Specter and Whirlwind are exactly the same thing but either combined with Yellow Belly makes the Super Stripe. Also don't know yet what a homozygous Whirlwind/Specter looks like. I think there are probably also several other mutations of this gene that pass for Yellow Belies but in certain combos can make the Granite Ivory or the Puma (sort of part way between Super Stripe and Ivory but not to be confused with the European name for the Champagne, an unrelated some type of dominant mutation).

So you can see that alleles (different mutations of the same gene) have become an important concept in ball python mutant genetics. One of the important things to remember is that any one animal only has two copies of the same gene (one from mom and one from dad) no matter how many different versions exist in the total population. So one ball python can not have the Lesser and the Hidden and the normal version of that gene because there is only room for two versions. Also, a ball python can only pass one version of a given gene to its offspring. For example, a Platy has both the Hidden and the Lesser version but it can’t give both to the same baby; each baby either gets the Hidden version or the Lesser version but not both and not a normal version because the Platy doesn’t even have a normal version of that gene to give.

Many Black-eyed leucistics have the faint yellow spots, but some don't-the first Fire line lucy I ever saw was the purest white lucy I've seen to date!

I wonder if you could breed in some reduced pattern morphs to reduce the yellowing on Black Eyes. I like the Black Eyes the best.

The Hom. Mojave is notable for the coloration on the head. Again my opinion on them puts them well bellow the others for producing Blue Eyes due to the head coloration. The Vin Russos seem to produce the best Blue Eyes and after that I would say Lessers.

Does anyone know what Fire or Sulfur crossed with Vin/Lesser/Butter/Mojave produce? I'm probably gunna get a Lesser or Butter to breed with my Fire and Pastel.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

So you can see that alleles (different mutations of the same gene) have become an important concept in ball python mutant genetics. One of the important things to remember is that any one animal only has two copies of the same gene (one from mom and one from dad) no matter how many different versions exist in the total population. So one ball python can not have the Lesser and the Hidden and the normal version of that gene because there is only room for two versions. Also, a ball python can only pass one version of a given gene to its offspring. For example, a Platy has both the Hidden and the Lesser version but it can’t give both to the same baby; each baby either gets the Hidden version or the Lesser version but not both and not a normal version because the Platy doesn’t even have a normal version of that gene to give.

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Ahhh! This explains why one has to cross a lesser with a normal sib to get the Platty! I was wondering about that! Thanks for clearing this up!

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Originally Posted by Oxylepy

I wonder if you could breed in some reduced pattern morphs to reduce the yellowing on Black Eyes. I like the Black Eyes the best.

The Hom. Mojave is notable for the coloration on the head. Again my opinion on them puts them well bellow the others for producing Blue Eyes due to the head coloration. The Vin Russos seem to produce the best Blue Eyes and after that I would say Lessers.

Does anyone know what Fire or Sulfur crossed with Vin/Lesser/Butter/Mojave produce? I'm probably gunna get a Lesser or Butter to breed with my Fire and Pastel.

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Anyone breed the Amir line of black eyed leucistic? Maybe them, fire, and sulfur are all the same thing but I was wondering if there are distinct traits (like the Amir line not having yellow ever or maybe it was just luck at the start, and what is that line named anyway?).

I thought the homozygous Vin Russo blue eyed leucistics had a little white on white pattern?

I believe that sulfur mojave has been produced (and it wasn't white, but a very nice looking faded mojave) and two of those where bred together producing leucistic which is possibly both blue and black eyed.