Question on agression and enclosure size?

[angllady2]

Hello everyone,

I am new here, and I have a big problem.

I have two adult ball pythons, one is believed to be a female and one a male. They stay in separate enclosures. When we got the female, we put her into an empty 55 gallon tank we had in storage. She was very happy and content there. She was gentle and sweet and a good eater, she never got sick or had any problems. We had her for 2 years before we got the male, whom we housed in a 40 gallon long tank we got very cheaply at a yard sale.

Both snakes were very calm and well behaved. They were content and ate well. We handled both a few times a month, and never had a bit of trouble from either, although we were careful to keep them apart for fear of problems. They lived happily in their big tanks for another 2 years.

The thing was, those 4 foot long tanks took up a great deal of room in our home. After visiting a number of ball python care sites and repeatedly reading that they did not need so much room, we moved them into 30 gallon tanks that are approximately 18 inches shorter than the tanks they were in before.

They fussed about for a few days and then seemed to settle down, or so we thought. Within 8 days however, both snakes became extremely aggressive and nasty. They lunge and snap at the slightest disturbance anywhere near their tanks. They prowl incessantly, and rarely rest. They have the same water bowls, the same hides, the same heat, the only difference is the smaller tank size.

It has become almost impossible to change their water, we have to pen them in their hides, which does not improve their mood any. Feeding time has become a nightmare, and forget cleaning the tanks. And worst of all, our gentle female, who has never bitten or snapped at anyone in 8 years, suddenly bit my husband for no apparent reason.

This of course served to upset him and make him even more reluctant to care for the snakes. It has been almost 3 months since the move, and their mood shows no sign of improving.

The tanks and stand we have long since sold at a flea market, and the chances of getting two tanks of similar size and a stand at a price we can afford are slim to none.

Has anyone here ever had a similar experience with snakes suddenly becoming aggressive after such a move? Is there anything we can do to help settle them back down? I would hate to have to give them up because we can no longer care for them, but I'm at my wits end here on how to get my gentle babies back.

Any advise or comments are appreciated.

Gale

[tank4102]

well my ball python i ot her a 40 gallon breeder recently, she was in a 10 gallon befor , so then she has been kind of agressive lately

[thefnshow66]

Are the new tanks set up in the same area that the old tanks were? Maybe they feel insecure in their new tanks in a new area that has more traffic. If you haven't, you should try covering the two sides and back of the tank to make them feel a little bit more secure. How many hides do they have in their tanks? Try two of the same hides in each end of the tank. Maybe they have mites, look and check if you see any little nasty bugs on them. One thing i learned with a couple of aggressive balls i had was that when they approach you aggressively, just get a spray bottle of cold water and that gets them off of striking mode. If they continue to be the same way, invest in a good snake hook.

[dr del]

Hi,

How long has it been since you moved them into the smaller tanks?

Sometimes they need longer to settle in but usually a couple of weeks would be enough.

When you say feeding is a nightmare what do you mean? Do they both eat - if so what size of prey are they eating and how often (weights of the prey and the snakes will help work out if the balance is right ).

If they are snappy I would weigh them inside pillow cases and subtract the weight of the pillow case later.

Gloves might help you be less nervous in handling sessions.


dr del

[angllady2]

The new tanks are in the same place the old tanks were. They've been in the new tanks for about 3 months now.

By feeding time being a nightmare, I meant it is very difficult to feed them because they are so aggressive. Both snakes take live mice, but trying to get a struggling mouse into the tank while trying to prevent an aggressive snake from getting out or biting is not fun. We feed them 3 adult mice each every two weeks. The same thing we have always fed with no problems.

Both snakes have a clean bill of health, but this sudden and extreme aggression is the pits.

Both have dome type hides and large water dishes, I don't think I can squeeze another hide into the tank. My female is at least 5 feet long, and the male is about 4 1/2 feet. The female spends time curled up in her water dish, and I don't think she'd fit into a smaller one.


If covering part of the tank might help, is there a particular way of doing it? Or is the idea just to give them some darkness/privacy? Would using common aquarium background paper outside the tank work?

The squirt bottle works with the male, he really backs off from it, but the female just gets crabbier.

Gale

[thefnshow66]

The new tanks are in the same place the old tanks were. They've been in the new tanks for about 3 months now.

By feeding time being a nightmare, I meant it is very difficult to feed them because they are so aggressive. Both snakes take live mice, but trying to get a struggling mouse into the tank while trying to prevent an aggressive snake from getting out or biting is not fun. We feed them 3 adult mice each every two weeks. The same thing we have always fed with no problems.

Both snakes have a clean bill of health, but this sudden and extreme aggression is the pits.

Both have dome type hides and large water dishes, I don't think I can squeeze another hide into the tank. My female is at least 5 feet long, and the male is about 4 1/2 feet. The female spends time curled up in her water dish, and I don't think she'd fit into a smaller one.


If covering part of the tank might help, is there a particular way of doing it? Or is the idea just to give them some darkness/privacy? Would using common aquarium background paper outside the tank work?

The squirt bottle works with the male, he really backs off from it, but the female just gets crabbier.

Gale

You can use aquarium background paper or you can use black foam board. The foam board will help keep the heat in the glass tank as well. As far is fitting two hides in the tank, what kind of hides are you using now? Is it possible to take a picture and post it online to see? What are you using to heat the tank and what are you using to control to heat?

[dr del]

Hi,

Couple of ideas spring to mind for people to kick around.

3 mice isn't a great deal of food for a 5 foot female - but that depends on the size of the mice as ex breeders are a fair size. But I would be feeding that at least every week.

Could you give us an idea of the weight of the mice you are feeding them?

Do you think they would switch easily over to small rats? My females eat a small rat every week. The male might need slightly less food but when mine was holding out for mice (F/T in my case ) I was giving him 3 jumbo's per week.

It's possible they like the smaller space and you are seeing an increase in appetite.

You could try a small F/T rat if you have nice long tongs to offer it with. They might not take it but, if they did, you would only have to worry about one animal at a time. Use a hairdryer to really heat the head of the rat just before offering and remember to pre-scent so they know food is in the area. It might not work but the fact they strike at everything would make me want to at least try in your position.

The female being in her waterbowl is only really a big problem if it is caused by too high temps or mites or she is doing it constantly - but you will want to rule out temp and mite problems just in case as both of those would also stress the snakes out.

The aquarium background is great for covering the back and both sides of the tank as it looks attractive. If you find you need help with temps you can put insulation on the outside of the tank over it without ruining the look of the tank.

While we are discussing tanks and heat etc how and where are you measuring the temps and what do you use to control the heat sources?

They both have hides at each end of the temp range so they can thermoregulate ok?

**edit**
I took so long posting this the questions already got asked.
**end edit**


dr del