Do YOU think there's anything wrong with this set-up?

[Ash]

I've heard a lot of contradictory information regarding what a good set-up for a ball python is like. Now, I've been keeping snakes for about five years or so, and I've never had any significant problems except for one escapee when the snake was not in my care (I got her back), and one 4-week fast during the winter by a female. I would like to know if YOU, personally, have ever had any first-hand experience or have been told by anybody you personally know about health problems resulting from the following things:

- Keeping ball pythons on calci-sand substrate
- Using heat lamps rather than under tank heaters
- Feeding a ball python mice it's entire life (this one has to do with me personally. The pet shop I used to get feeder rats from recently went out of business and now I can only get mice, and one of my BP's will NOT take frozen/thawed, only pre-killed at best).
- Not using a thermostat, only a thermometer, to monitor and (manually) control temperature.

I have heard that heat lamps suck the humidity out of the air, but I have also heard that the only thing bp's need humidity for is for shedding, and that REALLY low humidity can caused RI's (I heard that happened to one guy who's top drawer in a rack system was right near a heat vent). I use heat lamps, have never had RI's, and my animals shed in whole pieces every time. I up the humidity when they start hazing up by putting a damp towel over the screen top.

I don't have a thermostat, I can't afford one (and because I have 2 seperate tanks and no rack system, I would need 2 of them, one for each animal). I was told by the breeder who sold me my first snake 5 years ago that they are hardy animals that can tolerate moderate temperature fluccuations (being that they're wild animals, I wouldn't be surprised). In california during the day, the temperature in my room is a static 92 degrees, and at night it's 78 at the coolest. During the winter, the heat lamps keep the temperatures between 87 and 91, with very mild dips and spikes. Have you ever heard of serious medical conditions resulting from the lack of a thermostat?

I like the way sand looks. I read in a magazine recently that it can irritate the scales of non-desert snakes and cause scale rot. Since reading that, I switched them both to paper towels, but I'm quite fond of the aesthetics of my enclosures and I miss the sand. Would it be really terrible to switch back? Is the risk of scale rot from sand alone very high?

thank you for any and all feedback.

[knott00]

If what you are doing is meeting the husbandry requirements, then everything is fine.
-Your Humidity is is 50%-60%
-Temp Gradient 80% on cool side 92% on the warm side
-Identicle hides

Honestly, I don't think the need for a T-stat is nearly as great with a heatlamp as it is with a UTH. Especially if you're using a lower wattage bulb. The chances of your temp going too high because of your lamp are pretty small as long as you don't have it on all day during the summer.

I personally prefer a UTH though. I don't have to worry about the humidity in my tank at all. My humidity is perfect with the size of the water bowl I have in my enclosure and my substrate. Also, having belly heat helps the snake with digestion.

As for the sand, I would really avoid it. The sand substrat is for your pleasure and it can harm the snake. If I were you I'd find a different substrat that looks nice and use that instead. Coconut husk, reptibark, aspen are all decent choices. Just steer clear of pine and cedar. They will kill your snake.

[Meltdown Morphs]

I'm not so sure about the sand thing either but if you arent satisfied with the paper towels you could try Aspen bedding.., Repti Bark, or that Eco Earth Compressed coconut fiber stuff, usually sold like a brick that you'd put in hot water to expand but need to let it dry after.


Not having a thermostat 'can' lead to some serious medical problems if left unattended in the case of UTH the snake could be burned from the pad becomming far to hot, but you said your using heat lamps I'm not fully sure about how the thermostat works with heat lamps but if you found the right wattage of bulb I would -think- a thermostat wouldnt be be needed as if it got too warm the snake would just move, but if it always stays on the cool side perhaps it is too warm...but Dont quote me on that. In getting a thermostat you wouldnt have to get two assuming both of the snakes are ball pythons they would both have the same heat requirements and such a lot of thermostats have at least 2 outlets to plug stuff into them.

For the the topic of feeding mice all its life, thats just prefrence..if your snake eats it then its good to go, some people just perfer rats over mice cause they are bigger and they possibly have breeding plans down the road and feeding rats usualy helps the snakes put on a little more wieght over time vs. mice feedings

[trott]

Use aspen or cypress, no cedar. If no themostats, use a dimmer switch(HD,lowes $10) hooked to a UTH on warm side and pick up an accurite from stores mentioned, $10(probe under warm side hide and unit in cool side).

Place a hand towel on top and wet it as needed. This wil give you a 20% pump in humidity if neccesary. You can use a lamp on the cool side with a dimmer to maintain the 80deg but it has has to be adjustable. Better to have all you heat sources adjustable. And you only need one bulb,red,rumor is they can't see it. Tanks are a little more work than tubs, but thats the price to display your animals.

[Argentra]

No sand, it can be ingested, get in under scales and cause trouble, a whole number of things. Use Aspen or Cypress instead.

Thermostats do not always mean $100 expenditures. There are those you can get for $20 or so, the ZooMed ReptiTemp 500R being the best of them, that work just fine until you can save up the $80 for a Johnson or Ranco.

To help the tanks work their best, be sure to cover the back and both sides with background, and then with an insulating material like cork or foam board. Also, towels can harbor mold and bacteria, so covering your screens with foil or plexiglass is the best way to keep the humidity stable.

[DustinB]

No offense, but if you can't afford a thermostat you probably shouldn't be keeping pets. Any animal can get sick and require a visit to the vet. At the low end you are look at $50+ and in some cases several hundred dollars. Maybe you should think about putting some money into a savings account a little at a time in case one day something does happen.

As far as heating, you can get a decent thermostat for less than $30 or so and a section of flexwatt already wired for about $10. At the very least you can buy a $10 rheostat(light dimmer) from walmart that will be acceptable if your room temperature doesn't fluctuate more than 5-8 degrees. On my tank I use a UTH I bought before I knew about flexwatt and it doesn't provide enough heat for night. The tstat controls it during the day to regulate the temps, but at night I turn on a night heat lamp(low wattage purple) to compensate.

As for humidity you can cover about 2/3 of the screen top in foil and adjust your water bowl size. This works for me to keep around 55% humidity all the time. During shed I mist once every day or 2 to keep it at 70%.

For substrate aspen is cheap, dust free, and looks decent.

Keep in mind, without a way to regulate your temps you could bake your snake. If your A/C decides to quit during the summer while no one is around your lamp could easily reach into the 100s. All it takes is one time to kill your snakes. So maybe party a little less, hold out on those new clothes, or whatever you can get by without to save a little cash for your living animals. It's not a large monthy investment, just once unless something breaks.

[WingedWolfPsion]

Calcium sand is irritating and drying--not good for ball pythons. It could lead to skin problems and bad sheds.

Heat lamps may burn the animal if not set up correctly, but the primary issue is that they make it more difficult to keep humidity up--which can lead to stuck sheds, which lead to skin problems or even blindness if not addressed. If you can keep the humidity at 60% with a heat lamp, and the lamp is the right distance from the animal and the animal can't access it and be burned, it is fine, but you should use a red or blue heat light so you don't disturb the animal at night.

Get a thermostat. Ball pythons aren't that hardy when it comes to bouncing temps, and they come from equatorial regions where they hide out underground when the temperature fluctuates. A thermostat is really not optional if you want to keep the animal healthy. Even with ideal conditions, these guys can be prone to respiratory infections and mouth infections if stressed, so don't risk it further by providing less than ideal conditions.

The mice are fine, as long as the snake will eat a few at a time, rather than just one at a time. Monitor the snake's weight carefully. Snakes grow very slowly after they are about 3 or 4 years old, but they do keep growing. Weight should maintain and rise slowly over a year once they are grown. If the snake is losing weight, you need to feed it more--either more mice, or feed more often. The total weight of the feeders is what is important, rather than their species.

[Nasubi77]

Another thing about calcium sand is that it clumps when moist. I don't know if there is a big concern about snakes ingesting sand when they stick out their tongue, but it is a big concern with bearded dragons. If ingested, the sand clumps like cement in their intestines and stomach, which can cause severe and even fatal impactions.

I've seen autopsy photos and x-rays of a BD that had calcium sand blocking up the inner works...pretty nasty stuff.

[knott00]

Another thing about calcium sand is that it clumps when moist. I don't know if there is a big concern about snakes ingesting sand when they stick out their tongue, but it is a big concern with bearded dragons. If ingested, the sand clumps like cement in their intestines and stomach, which can cause severe and even fatal impactions.

I've seen autopsy photos and x-rays of a BD that had calcium sand blocking up the inner works...pretty nasty stuff.

I'm unsure if this would pose a problem for a BP as long as it makes it to the BPs stomach. Their acid is strong enough to dissolve bone and teeth, so I dunno if a little sand would be a problem for acid like that.

[Ash]

Okay, thanks everybody. I wont be switching back to the sand because I was noticing it getting under his scales. The reason I was reluctant to switch to wood chips or anything like that is because i've heard that they house mites and infect the snakes. He's on paper towel for the time-being. Also I wasn't sure about the heat tape because I'd rather not risk them burning themselves. (I own one, but I don't trust it :/ )

And that thing about me being too poor to keep the snakes, you needn't worry. I take them to the vet regularly and I know for a fact the temps don't get dangerous in there. (I dont even use the heat lamps in the summer because we're cheap and don't use the A/C. No danger of the AC turning off and frying them.) Technically, I could afford a thermostat, but I felt it's an unneccisary expenditure, which I still think it is. I could see how they would be important for people with rack systems containing 10 or up snakes, but being that I don't have a huge collection like that, I can stay focused on my two babies and be completely sure they're alright. I think I'm pretty attentive and I would notice, and change things if I thought something was seriously wrong.

Also there's one last thing I'm wondering: How come it seems people are so insistant that ball pythons NEED two identical hides, until they're in rack systems? I've never heard of somebody having two hides for each snake in a rack system, sometimes not even one (i.e. ralph davis).