Desert Tank

[midtx350z]

What do you guys/gals think? Do I need to put some fake plants in there?

[mrshawt]

I think so. Bp's like tight, enclosed spaces.
Things I would also recommend:

a second, identical hide
some kind of covering of the two sides and back of the tank for security.
digital thermometers

Also, check out the bp husbandry forum for some hints on setups and whatnot. Welcome!

[midtx350z]

I think so. Bp's like tight, enclosed spaces.
Things I would also recommend:

a second, identical hide
some kind of covering of the two sides and back of the tank for security.
digital thermometers

Also, check out the bp husbandry forum for some hints on setups and whatnot. Welcome!

Mr. Shawt, I sent you this PM, anyone else, feel free to respond or contact me on Live Messenger

-------------------PM-----------------------

Hey, Mr. Shawt... Thanks for the reply on my thread. I've got a few more questions for you if you don't mind. It would probably be easier to ask/answer on an instant messanger if you have one, if you have Live (msn) or Yahoo you can add me by my email: esanchez (at) live (dot) com.

I'll let you do that if you want to but here's me first questions.

We have 4 snakes.

0.1 (2.0" BP)(Zelda)
1.0 (2.2" BP)(Emilio aka Millie)
1.0 (2.5" BP)(Caesar)
0.1 (4.3" BP)(Cleo) <- She's kind of a pain.

Now, we keep them all in the same vivarium (the one you replied on) and they seem to like it. We haven't had ANY feeding problems at all, except with the big girl who was fasting, but she's eating a healthy meal once a week now.

Do you think they need to be separated?

They're all crawling around the tank right now, just looking around. Pretty nice to look at, they have a red infrared night heat lamp.

[blackcrystal22]

Mr. Shawt, I sent you this PM, anyone else, feel free to respond or contact me on Live Messenger

-------------------PM-----------------------

Hey, Mr. Shawt... Thanks for the reply on my thread. I've got a few more questions for you if you don't mind. It would probably be easier to ask/answer on an instant messanger if you have one, if you have Live (msn) or Yahoo you can add me by my email: esanchez (at) live (dot) com.

I'll let you do that if you want to but here's me first questions.

We have 4 snakes.

0.1 (2.0" BP)(Zelda)
1.0 (2.2" BP)(Emilio aka Millie)
1.0 (2.5" BP)(Caesar)
0.1 (4.3" BP)(Cleo) <- She's kind of a pain.

Now, we keep them all in the same vivarium (the one you replied on) and they seem to like it. We haven't had ANY feeding problems at all, except with the big girl who was fasting, but she's eating a healthy meal once a week now.

Do you think they need to be separated?

They're all crawling around the tank right now, just looking around. Pretty nice to look at, they have a red infrared night heat lamp.

I thought I saw two snakes in the first picture...
4 snakes in one cage is a very bad idea. Do they need to be separated? Yes.

First of all, females who are too small to breed will and could have already. Which can lead to impaction and death possibly. The bigger female could breed successfully and then you'll have babies on your hands. Are you prepared for 6-10 new babies? Do you know about breeding, follicles, incubation, and the impact it has on the female?
If one of the snakes gets an RI (higher risk with those lamps, btw, because theres such a suck of humidity) then all 4 get an RI. Thats 4 sets of vet bills, and thats not cheap in the slightest.
There are also cases of cannibalism, ESPECIALLY if there are larger animals in the cage with smaller animals. If one has parasites, that's also another set of vet bills for all 4.

The males will fight when they are old enough to breed. They can cause great harm to each other and their cagemates.
Also, when you see them 'cuddling' they are hardly doing this. The one on top is creating dominance, which creates stress and can lead to fasting, illness, and death.
Also, you should feed the balls in their enclosure, if your doing that with more than one it is extremely dangerous and heightening possibilities for cannibalism.
Get 3 tubs from target with clip on lids (thick clips on the sides that pull over the lids). Melt holes into the sides and get some flexwatt and invest in a nice thermostat from reptile basics.
www.reptilebasics.com
I also suggest getting some hides from them as well. Log hides are terrible for ball pythons and are stress causers more than relievers. That big hide is also far too big for a ball python as they prefer super snug tight hides.
Trash the heat lamps, they are terrible. Put the animals on newspaper, aspen, paper-towels or cypress. The bark you have is ok, it's difficult to clean and is hard to see when a snake defecates.

Even if they don't have feeding problems, chances are, they will eventually or have other issues that I've talked about above.
Also, for tubs you can get ceramic water bowls (easy to clean) from the cooking isle in any food store.
For your tank, it needs to be set-up something like this..
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...t-Up-guide.jpg

This is how I have some of my tubs set-up. With different hides and sizes in tubs of course.


Edit: Also, those temperatures need to be accurate. You can't just throw heat lamps and some un-digital heat gauges in there and think it's fine. You must not guess. Those gauges are extremely inaccurate and should be replaced with digital thermometers with probes.
Hiding ball pythons are happy ball pythons. If they are roaming, that is a bad and stressful sign.
I'm also curious, what are you feeding them and how often?

[midtx350z]

I thought I saw two snakes in the first picture...
4 snakes in one cage is a very bad idea. Do they need to be separated? Yes.

First of all, females who are too small to breed will and could have already. Which can lead to impaction and death possibly. The bigger female could breed successfully and then you'll have babies on your hands. Are you prepared for 6-10 new babies? Do you know about breeding, follicles, incubation, and the impact it has on the female?
If one of the snakes gets an RI (higher risk with those lamps, btw, because theres such a suck of humidity) then all 4 get an RI. Thats 4 sets of vet bills, and thats not cheap in the slightest.
There are also cases of cannibalism, ESPECIALLY if there are larger animals in the cage with smaller animals. If one has parasites, that's also another set of vet bills for all 4.

The males will fight when they are old enough to breed. They can cause great harm to each other and their cagemates.
Also, when you see them 'cuddling' they are hardly doing this. The one on top is creating dominance, which creates stress and can lead to fasting, illness, and death.
Also, you should feed the balls in their enclosure, if your doing that with more than one it is extremely dangerous and heightening possibilities for cannibalism.
Get 3 tubs from target with clip on lids (thick clips on the sides that pull over the lids). Melt holes into the sides and get some flexwatt and invest in a nice thermostat from reptile basics.
www.reptilebasics.com
I also suggest getting some hides from them as well. Log hides are terrible for ball pythons and are stress causers more than relievers. That big hide is also far too big for a ball python as they prefer super snug tight hides.
Trash the heat lamps, they are terrible. Put the animals on newspaper, aspen, paper-towels or cypress. The bark you have is ok, it's difficult to clean and is hard to see when a snake defecates.

Even if they don't have feeding problems, chances are, they will eventually or have other issues that I've talked about above.
Also, for tubs you can get ceramic water bowls (easy to clean) from the cooking isle in any food store.
For your tank, it needs to be set-up something like this..
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...t-Up-guide.jpg

This is how I have some of my tubs set-up. With different hides and sizes in tubs of course.


Edit: Also, those temperatures need to be accurate. You can't just throw heat lamps and some un-digital heat gauges in there and think it's fine. You must not guess. Those gauges are extremely inaccurate and should be replaced with digital thermometers with probes.
Hiding ball pythons are happy ball pythons. If they are roaming, that is a bad and stressful sign.
I'm also curious, what are you feeding them and how often?

Wow... I can't believe you know so much about snakes.

Two of those snakes are mine, Zelda and Caesar. Millie and Cleo are my roommate's.

We just moved into a new house and had no other place to put them, so we put them in the big tank he had at his old apt.

To tell you the truth, now I'm kind of scared because of all the facts you listed, but I guess it's a good thing, otherwise the snakes would have suffered.

You told me that I should get tubs but to tell you the truth, I'd much rather have them in a tank/cage in our living room. We've been discussing making our own cage out of wood and plexi about 7" tall to put in the corner of the room. Now, since we have a total of 4 snakes, shoul dwe go ahead and make 4 different compartments for them? or can the smaller snakes be in the same one and just keep the large one separated?

I will also get a thermostat and digital thermometers ASAP.

[midtx350z]

Also, I've been feeding the 3 small ones 1 small rat each and the large one 2 small rats (she just started eating since we got her)

[blackcrystal22]

Wow... I can't believe you know so much about snakes.

Two of those snakes are mine, Zelda and Caesar. Millie and Cleo are my roommate's.

We just moved into a new house and had no other place to put them, so we put them in the big tank he had at his old apt.

To tell you the truth, now I'm kind of scared because of all the facts you listed, but I guess it's a good thing, otherwise the snakes would have suffered.

You told me that I should get tubs but to tell you the truth, I'd much rather have them in a tank/cage in our living room. We've been discussing making our own cage out of wood and plexi about 7" tall to put in the corner of the room. Now, since we have a total of 4 snakes, shoul dwe go ahead and make 4 different compartments for them? or can the smaller snakes be in the same one and just keep the large one separated?

I will also get a thermostat and digital thermometers ASAP.

Also, I've been feeding the 3 small ones 1 small rat each and the large one 2 small rats (she just started eating since we got her)

This website is full of people with knowledge that is amazing. Everything I have ever learned about these animals is credited to the people on this website, when I, myself, strolled in here looking for help not so long ago.

I simply suggested tubs because they are inexpensive and the snakes prefer them. If you would like to have tanks, those can be just as simple to set-up as well, and nicer looking too (just remember, bigger is not always better, ball pythons prefer smaller spaces than larger so nothing bigger than a 20g each is suggested). If you build your own enclosure, and make it 4 parts, that would also be a really good project and we can help you along the way with that.

Do you have UTHs currently or are you using the lamps only as heat? If so, I suggest buying a UTH from a petstore ($15 or so) or buying some flexwatt from reptilebasics for $3-4 wired a foot. You can get this very long and have it a few feet to span the entire back 1/4 of your newly built enclosure as well. You can get dimmers from hardware stores as temporary thermostats if you do have a UTH already (though they will need some adjustment with changes in room temps and such). Many people buy a UTH without realizing that it gets much too hot for the snake and can severely hurt the animal uncontrolled.

How do you know the snake's sex? Did you get them from breeders or have you had them sexed?
The most current worry I have is the snakes breeding. Usually cannibalism and stress are later on-going issues, but the breeding thing is important to remember and try to get them separated asap. If you want to buy some tubs to temporarily have them separated, that is also an idea as well.

It depends on how much money you are willing to spend, but there are also other options for caging. On that reptilebasics website are some examples of vision cages (which work wonderfully for most snakes and reptiles) as well as they stack and look nice. They can be pricey, but there are many vision-type cages on the market as opposed to building your own, tanks, or tubs.

Don't worry too much, your feeding them great and you seem very interested in their welfare. I'm very glad you came here to ask questions, that's the most important thing.

[midtx350z]

This website is full of people with knowledge that is amazing. Everything I have ever learned about these animals is credited to the people on this website, when I, myself, strolled in here looking for help not so long ago.

I simply suggested tubs because they are inexpensive and the snakes prefer them. If you would like to have tanks, those can be just as simple to set-up as well, and nicer looking too (just remember, bigger is not always better, ball pythons prefer smaller spaces than larger so nothing bigger than a 20g each is suggested). If you build your own enclosure, and make it 4 parts, that would also be a really good project and we can help you along the way with that.

Do you have UTHs currently or are you using the lamps only as heat? If so, I suggest buying a UTH from a petstore ($15 or so) or buying some flexwatt from reptilebasics for $3-4 wired a foot. You can get this very long and have it a few feet to span the entire back 1/4 of your newly built enclosure as well. You can get dimmers from hardware stores as temporary thermostats if you do have a UTH already (though they will need some adjustment with changes in room temps and such). Many people buy a UTH without realizing that it gets much too hot for the snake and can severely hurt the animal uncontrolled.

How do you know the snake's sex? Did you get them from breeders or have you had them sexed?
The most current worry I have is the snakes breeding. Usually cannibalism and stress are later on-going issues, but the breeding thing is important to remember and try to get them separated asap. If you want to buy some tubs to temporarily have them separated, that is also an idea as well.

It depends on how much money you are willing to spend, but there are also other options for caging. On that reptilebasics website are some examples of vision cages (which work wonderfully for most snakes and reptiles) as well as they stack and look nice. They can be pricey, but there are many vision-type cages on the market as opposed to building your own, tanks, or tubs.

Don't worry too much, your feeding them great and you seem very interested in their welfare. I'm very glad you came here to ask questions, that's the most important thing.

We bought them from pet stores and we were told their sex when we got them. I trust they're the right sex... How much does it cost to have them sexed?

I do have a UTH and lamps, one for daytime and one for nighttime.

Can the smaller snakes live together? or do they all have to be separated?

One thing we've noticed over the past few days is that Cleo (the big girl) has become very agressive. Any time we try to pick her up she'll strike at us, or even when she's out she'll start striking. She even strikes from inside the tank when there's people around it. I'm sure it's because of everything you listed... from her needing identical smaller hides, and better temperature/humidity, and the tank may feel too open.
We used to handle her pretty much every day, so that shouldn't be the issue, we just kind of had to stop since we didn't want to get bitten.

Do you have an instant messenger that we could have a live conversation in?

[blackcrystal22]

We bought them from pet stores and we were told their sex when we got them. I trust they're the right sex... How much does it cost to have them sexed?

I do have a UTH and lamps, one for daytime and one for nighttime.

Can the smaller snakes live together? or do they all have to be separated?

One thing we've noticed over the past few days is that Cleo (the big girl) has become very agressive. Any time we try to pick her up she'll strike at us, or even when she's out she'll start striking. She even strikes from inside the tank when there's people around it. I'm sure it's because of everything you listed... from her needing identical smaller hides, and better temperature/humidity, and the tank may feel too open.
We used to handle her pretty much every day, so that shouldn't be the issue, we just kind of had to stop since we didn't want to get bitten.

Do you have an instant messenger that we could have a live conversation in?

All snakes should be separated. Cleo could be aggressive because of the stress from her cage mates.

I currently don't have an IM on this computer installed. I may install it, but not right this second.
Petstores often give silly reasons for the sex of their animals. Many think that you can tell by looking at the ball pythons tail or at their spurs. None of this is true, and they have to be popped or probed. I'm sure if there was a show around you or someone here that lives near you they could personally sex the animals for you and show you how to do it. You can get them sexed by some vets as well for a small fee.

The problem is, the males mature much faster than the females do. If the male is a year old, he could be ready and set to breed with no problems. Females should be at least two years old and a proper weight on them. 1200g or more IMO.