Possible Offspring

[Nvar]

A question for the BP geneticists out there. Would you please give me an idea of possible offspring arising from a male spider and a female piebald.

[Toronto Python Gurus]

ill take a stab at it, not great with genetics so ill prob be wrong

spider(het pied)
pied(het spider)
double hets(pied/spider)
normals

[kc261]

Python Guru is wrong.

You will get 50% spiders het pied, and 50% het pied.

[Toronto Python Gurus]

Python Guru is wrong.

You will get 50% spiders het pied, and 50% het pied.

I WAS NOT WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!! . . . . i was way off! lol

[Nvar]

Thank and oops. Sorry. I guess I should have put this under the Genetics forum. If anyone can move it, please do so.

I know the spider is dominant and the pied is recessive. Does that mean I cannot get any new visual pieds or will they all be spiders and het pied? Since a pied is recessive, do you have to breed two pieds together to get a visual pied?

At least two het pieds?

[Shadera]

Thank and oops. Sorry. I guess I should have put this under the Genetics forum. If anyone can move it, please do so.

I know the spider is dominant and the pied is recessive. Does that mean I cannot get any new visual pieds or will they all be spiders and het pied? Since a pied is recessive, do you have to breed two pieds together to get a visual pied?

You will not get any visual pieds until you breed 2 hets together. To get spider pieds, you'll need to breed together 2 spiders het for pied, or one spider het pied with one het pied.

[kc261]

BTW, it doesn't matter which is the male & which is the female, the outcome will be the same.

However, it is nice in this case that the pied is the female, because it does affect what you can do with the next generation. If you get a male spider het pied, you should be able to have it ready to breed by next breeding season, and pair it up with its mother to get: 25% spider pied, 25% pied, 25% spider het pied, and 25% het pied. On the other hand, if the male were the pied, you could breed him to one of his spider het pied daughters for the same results, but you'd have to wait 3 years for the daughter to grow up before you could do it.

[Nvar]

Thanks much for the very useful info. You've answered my next question too which was breeding back to the mother. Is there a way to tell if an offspring is het or not? Is it designated as possible het since it has one parent of the morph type and is only proven het after it is breed and produces morph offspring?

[kc261]

In the example you gave, all of the offspring will be het. When they are the offspring of a visual specimen of a recessive morph, they are guaranteed to be het.

You get possible hets (phets) when you do not have a visual specimen. For example, I have some het albinos. When I bred them together, I will expect to get 25% visual albinos, 50% het albinos, and 25% normals. Since there is no way to know which are the hets and which as the normals, they will all be considered 66% phets. If you breed a het to a normal, you will get 50% hets and 50% normals. Again, you can't tell the difference so they are considered 50% hets.

[anatess]

You will not get any visual pieds until you breed 2 hets together. To get spider pieds, you'll need to breed together 2 spiders het for pied, or one spider het pied with one het pied.

To get spider pieds you can also breed a spider het pied to a pied. So next year, if you have a spider son from that spider x pied mating - you can breed him back to mommy (eeew, incest! ... no, no, it's okay. Really.) and possibly get a spider pied!

Edit: Whoops. Kc261 already said it above..