just trying to set my mind at ease here

[toben7l]

Unfortunately I've got bad news for my first post, but I'm really just trying to figure out what went wrong, as I'm going to be another snake as soon as possible. My BP (Arthas) died this afternoon, for some reason that wasn't outright apparent. There were no outward signs of trauma, but my wife said that he seemed to be rearing up a lot in the hour or so before he died.
I had him set up in a 10 gallon starter tank with a heating pad and red lamp (80w), average mean temp of 83f, average hotspot temp around 90f. He had a water dish that I kept full, and a hide spot that he fit in easily.
Arthas was about 18in long, about .5-.75in in diameter. The first time I fed him, it was a live fuzzy, and it didn't seem to satisfy him (started acting hungry in about four days, rather than a week, which is what I understand would be normal for a young BP). So, the next time I fed him I got a small mouse (about 3in long) from a chain pet store. He fed right away, just like he was supposed to. This was a week ago Monday (the 9th). Last Wednesday, for some reason, my roommate didn't seem to think it would be a problem to take him out and hold him for a while, despite the fact that the mouse was still obviously being digested (big lump ). A few hours later, he regurgitated the mouse, about half digested.
Since then he seemed a little more agitated than usual, but fine otherwise. I got him a hopper mouse two days ago, which he pretty much ignored (he let it sleep in the hide with him, even inside his coil). This worried me a little, but I didn't think much of it, as the mouse wasn't actively trying to harm him. Yesterday I went into his cage to give him more water, and he essentially asked me to hold him (just wrapped himself right around my arm. I let him stay wrapped on my arm for a few minutes, in which time he threw up about a tablespoon of water. I decided he was probably just agitated and as it was late at night (no animal hospitals w/ emergency rooms near, no reptile vets), I kidded myself that there was nothing wrong and said I'd let it go till I got home from work today. Obviously this was the wrong thing to do.

Here now at the end of my rant lies my real question - did I do wrong my giving him a small mouse instead of a fuzzy/hopper too soon (or in some other way I was caring for him), or is it just possible that he ripped something bringing the mouse back up?

[Cheryl Marchek aka JM]

Without a necropsy there is no way to be sure~ but my GUESS would Respitory Infection based on the head lifting and the sputem you describe. I don't know if he had it when you got him or picked it up with you.

Couple tips for next time~
Clean EVERYTHING with 10% bleach water and rinse VERY well before you try again
He can eat anything up to 1 1/2 times the thickest part of his body~ but a rat pup about the same width as the thickest part of his body is usually what I go for on a young BP
Don't feed or attempt to feed for 10 days after a regurge

Good luck!

[dr del]

Hi,

Just to double check - you mention the heaters but didn't specify what you were controling them with and where and how you were measuring the temperatures. Just to see whether you are using digital thermometers wih probes or those round ones stuck half way up the tank.

I agree on the good clean as well.

While your doing that it might be a good time to get a second hidespot for your next guy so he has two identical hides one on each side. Ideally you want them nice and snug so he can feel it on all sides - drip trays for flowerpots with holes in one side work great for that for very little money.

I'm sorry you lost the lil guy though - and I'm glad it isn't going to put you off as these snakes are great.


dr del

[toben7l]

using a sticky thermo on the cooler side by the bottom of the tank (stuck on the side) and a spot/laser thermo for the hot spot. gonna clean/bleach/dry the tank thoroughly tomorrow (too sad to do it tonight, just buried him) and it'll be a week or two before i go looking for another, so the tank will be plenty dry by that time, if i even use the same tank. i'm thinking of starting a little older this time. the only thing i don't like about doing that though is then the bp will be conditioned to the way the store handled it and i think it might take longer for it to get used to it's new home/handler, you know? if i do go the same size though, a local reptile shop recommended that i just feed starting with small mice for a snake the size i had or bigger - to just skip fuzzies all together.

i'm still inclined to think that handling Arthas while he was digesting, then the following regurgitation, had more to do with his death. the spitup of water was just that - water. didn't seem to be mucusy at all. i checked his mouth a few days ago and didn't see any signs of mucus, and he wasn't wheezing or crackling when he breathed.....oh well. there's probably plenty of other people who fail the first time for one reason or another, but knowing that still doesn't make me feel like I let Arthas down any less. such is life, i guess thanks for the help though guys, it's appreciated. i don't mean just here - this entire forum is a valuable resource

[dr del]

Hi,

Sounds like a sensible move to wait a little.

I would probably just ditch the stick on thermometer though - they have a reputation of being extremely inaccurate.

You could get the acurite from walmart for $12 - it is useful as you can leave the base unit on the cool end to read the ambients and humidity and use the probe in the warm end hide.

Here is a great post from Agentra that has info and pictures of a lot of the equipment.

The tempgun is obviously going to be your best friend though.

Do you know if the snake you lost was captive bred or captive farmed etc?

It might be worth considering getting your next one from a well respected breeder if the shop only has CF. CF can be fine if they are well started and checked over etc but, given the choice, I would always try and get CB.


dr del

[Dragnbaron]

I didn't see your previous post but i wanted to take this opportunity to say sorry, about your loss. I hope all works out well and you figure out what's going on. Good luck!

[toben7l]

thanks for the advice, i'll pick up that combo unit when i get my next bp. the snake was cb from a well respected local pet shop. i'm probably going to go back there for my next one. i don't know how long i'm going to wait, but it probably won't be too long - two weeks to a month most likely. thanks again for the advice :-)