Ibd

[halfwaynowhere]

One of my sister's boas has IBD. He's all loopy, his neck is almost completely limp, and his head is just floaty, keeps turning around.

She's had him for over a year (probably two years), and they had been kept in the same room as ball pythons, that are still healthy several months later. Harry was originally purchased with two others, all kept in the same tank. None of the others are showing signs of it. One of the other's was co-habitated with another female for breeding purposes. They only have one BCI that hasn't been in direct contact with any of the others.

We know its contagious. We need to know how likely it is that the other's carry it. From what I've read, ball pythons seem to get sick pretty fast after being exposed to it. Her BPs didn't get sick, she sold them to a reptile store several months ago, and just very recently, they were sold to their new home. Its been months, so I'm pretty sure they were fine.

Harry is the only one showing symptoms of it.

How concerned should we be? How common is this, really? Obviously we are not bringing any new snakes anywhere near these, and are treating them as quarantines. But does this mean that all of them are going to get it? What are the chances that any new stock will carry this? My sister has plans for purchasing a few new babies this year. If we start from scratch, how likely is it that the new snakes will be infected?

This is pretty scary.

[halfwaynowhere]

okay, so I've been doing some more research on this, and I'm not convinced he has it. There is definitely something neurological going on, though.

He hasn't been eating for the past month or so. He's been losing weight. Assist feeding was attempted, but he regurged.
The first 4 inches or so of his neck is limp, but the rest of him seems fine. He can right himself when turned on his back, although it takes a bit longer than it should. his back half is perfect. I watched him turn over, he starts with his tail and his head, and worked his way towards the middle. I've read that they have a difficult time righting themselves, or they can't do it at all with IBD, and that its the tail end that loses motor function, not the neck.
He does respond to sudden movements and such. His pupils respond normally to light.

The timeframe doesn't seem right, either.
If he had IBD, would he be getting worse? His symptoms started a month ago, and have not gotten better or worse. He's the same as he was when the symptoms started.

Any info is greatly appreciated. We are trying to scrounge up the money for a vet visit, but things are really tight right now. He's probably going to end up in the freezer soon, as he can't eat, and isn't going to get better.

[OhBalls]

Obviously you are not sure what is making him sick so you cannot possibly know if he'll get better. Putting him in the freezer is a bit extreme.
It's VERY possible to show those signs if the heat is too high for a length of time. Please, do what you need to do to get him to the vet or turn him over to a rescue that CAN get him to a vet.
I always have an emergency fund for my snakes. I'm not "made of money" but I make sure I do not own a pet I cannot afford to take care of.
Please let us know how things go. Best of luck

[halfwaynowhere]

Well, right now we are treating all the boas as if it were IBD, keeping them completely isolated from the rest of the snakes. I think we are going to hold off on freezing him until we can get the vet to check him out. Its not like we are doing it tonight or anything, but we are fairly certain that will be the outcome.
Normally we do have some money put away for things like this. But my sister's husband recently lost his job, and they had to move back in with us, which has turned everything upside down. The move has caused everyone to incur unexpected expenses. He started a new job, but won't get his first paycheck until mid-november.
So we'll try to keep him going until then, I'm going to try assist-feeding a mouse on monday (he's still fairly small, can take small rats, but I figure it will be easier to try with something smaller). Since he has very little control over the first four inches of his neck, I don't think he can swallow, but we are going to try what we can, without choking him. Hopefully we can keep him going until he can see a vet.
Really hoping its not IBD.
I doubt it was exposure to high temps, as things were pretty stable around when he first started showing signs. I'll ask my sister about it in the morning, though. Whatever it is happened before they moved in with us.

[OhBalls]

I may be wrong but I remember reading that they cannot test for IBD on a live animal because they have to test the cells in the liver for inclusion cells.

Perhaps someone else would know more.

Let us know how it goes!!

[halfwaynowhere]

i read that they can do a live liver biopsy, which is pretty invasive. Still, thats one of the reasons we were considering freezing. The plan is to call the vet in the morning to see what the best bet is. Unless we can prove that it is in fact something else (like a stroke or something else), we need to have the biopsy done. If there's even a shadow of a doubt that it might be IBD, we have to do it. Can't risk everyone else. So even if the symptoms don't align properly, they are still close enough for a scare.

[ohyeahnow]

A liver biopsy can be done on a live snake. In Vet Pathol 37:449-459 (2000) Wozniak, McBride, DeNardo, Tarar, Wong, and Osburn recommend: "Because of the potential for IBDV-infected boas to persist as inapparent carriers and the lack of IBDV natural transmission data, all newly acquired specimens should be quarantined and checked for IBD by liver biopsy before being placed in collections."

[halfwaynowhere]

I took Harry to the vet today, and he's getting daily injections of baytril, for the next two weeks. Hopefully its a simple infection that we can clear up. If he doesn't improve any, then we'll probably end up putting him down, and taking him in for a necropsy, but we'll see what the vet says at the time...

[ohyeahnow]

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=78069

I posted sources for information. Many you will need acess froma university or pay for the article. Three journal articles have links to web sites and were available for free. Sorry this has happened.