Feeding strategy help

[carlthuringer]

Hello, this is my first post.

I'm pretty much in the dark as to how one is supposed to feed a BP. Here's what I do right now.

I use the bathtub as his 'feeding grounds' because it's the only place I want him to be thinking about eating/biting something. I'm hoping that being placed in the tub (no water) will stimulate a feeding response more readily.

First I get the frozen mouse out and a small plastic tub. The mouse goes into the tub and the tub into the bathroom sink. I run water from the hot tap into the tub, which churns around the mouse and thaws it.

I get a newspaper and unfold it, spreading out the pages to line the bottom of the tub. This is in case the tub is damp from a recent shower, and also to cover any soap scum and provide a familiar surface and smell. Newsprint.

Next I go to retrieve my snake. He goes directly into the bathroom with me and into the tub, gently.

Without waiting really I get the mouse from the tub, check to see that it's squishy and thawed properly, which it usually is by now, and then sit next to the tub.

I count to five, slowly, and then lower the mouse to a height of about six inches and drop it onto the newsprint.

Sometimes the BP eats it instantly, or sometimes he scoots over to it, smells it, then eats it.

Is this a good approach? I feel it may be overly complicated but I've been advised against offering food in his terrarium and I wouldn't want him to associate my desk with lunchtime.

Further notes:
The bathroom is host to a litterbox and we have two cats. They're very suspicious of the snake though I take care to prevent any direct interaction, since they'd likely kill my baby bp and even if he was an adult he'd probably be badly injured. However, I notice that he gets excited and breathes more quickly when entering the bathroom.

I imagine this is due to a lot of things. rapidly changing scenery, temperature, smells, and light conditions. Is this too much for him to handle?

When putting him in the tub, he tends to calm down, then move around a little quickly. I figure that if he's sitting still he's either comfortable, or scared and waiting for a chance to escape. He always reacts this way in flat open spaces, searching for an edge, wall, discarded sock or something to get under or next to. Maybe the tub is a scary environment. there's also varying humidity, amplified sounds from the shape, and the smell of soaps and things.

Another thing is I can't be certain I'm giving him the mouse in the right way. I had success a few times with the above method, but one other time I used long forceps to wiggle the mouse in front of him in a 'lively' way and a couple other times I re-warmed the mouse for him after it sat a while.

The last two times I attempted feeding him this way, he would scent and approach the mouse, then freeze, S-bend his neck and sit perfectly still. He avoids the mouse if I move it a little closer or wiggle it around with teh forceps, and if I remove it he resumes searching for an escape route.

Final note:
He's been having a difficult shed. These last two failed feedings were during the shed. Just today I soaked him in a pyrex bowl with a washcloth as per the pinned guide and rubbed all the remaining skin off, noticing that he did still have the top half of his head and both eyes completely covered.

[starmom]

Final note first: Shedding can be usually accomplished well with keeping the humidity in his environment at 55%. Sometimes people add sphagnum moss in the hides to further bump up the humidity and that is fine also.

As for the feeding methodology: Wow!! That is quite the production!! If he's feeding fine for you, and it sounds like he is (except for the shed-time refusal) then that's great! If this process gets a little old for you, here are a couple of suggestions:
- Your snake will not associate your hands with food unless you have been playing with rodents!! It is perfectly fine, and perhaps less stressful, for a ball python to feed within their environment. These guys are typically referred to as ambush hunters meaning that they hunt from the entrance of their hide. Moving him to the bathtub might be causing a stress situation that could possibly lead to regurgitation. That said, there are snake keepers who successfully feed in a separate container with no issues at all. Have you thought about a plastic tub of some sort rather than the bathtub?
- As for the actual feeding, pre-scenting really works well!! I like to thaw the rodents right by the cages and racks that I keep my snakes in. This really lets them know that there is prey around and increases their feeding response. When the rodent is thoroughly thawed, I use a blow dryer to increase the heat signature of the rodent's head. I usually blow dry the head for about 45 seconds to a minute. I use hemostats to hold the rodent between the shoulder blades and offer the snake the rodent head first. WHAM!! Rodent is in the snake's mouth and the snake is happy!!

So, while our two methodologies are different, there is not a right or wrong way in this situation. While yours is a bit more dramatic and involves a bit more time and moving, it works for you and, most importantly, for your snake!! That's really what matters!!

Welcome to this forum! We love pictures and would love to see a picture of your tubby-dining snake!! Maybe light some candles...a little music...

Take care

[hoax]

To me that is way to complicated just feed in the cage there should be no problem. It is un-true that they will associate the opening of their tank with feeding if you handle them regularly. I would think the whole process that you described is very taxing on you and your snake.

Just feed in tank an clean up the little mess he will make
easier on you and your baby

[STORMS]

McKinsey nailed it! I'd take what she' says to heart She gives GREAT advice

Oh...and before I forget... to BP.net

[Kaorte]

I have tried feeding my BP in his enclosure and he will not eat. He only eats in him card board box, haha.

I think your process seems a little complicated, but if it works then it should be fine. Is your snakes enclosure close to the bathroom? I would just be worried about moving him a long distance right after a meal. I keep my cardboard box about 3 feet away from his enclosure so I don't have to move him very far. Sometimes I just let him crawl out of the box and back into his tub after a meal, that way there is no handling involved.

[hoax]

If it is working keep it. It is not uncommon for a BP to refuse during shed.

I felt the need to repost because after reading my post I felt like I was telling you the way you are doing it was wrong. I have no place to tell people they are wrong just because they do it different from me. If it works good. I just don't like the idea of having to move the snake around to much after feeding.

Hope I wasn't rude before.

[uafgrad]

I have only fed my little guy twice at this point but here is what has happened both times

I use a f/t adult mouse. I run tap water as hot as I can and fill up a small tupperware container and drop teh mouse (still in the plastic into the water and let it sit there for about 30 minutes) This container of water sits next to the snake tank. After 30 minutes (roughly) iremove package from water and remove the mouse from the package. I take my tongs and hold the mouse next to the CHE for a minute or two to get a nice warm heat signature. I then take my IR gun and measure the temp to make sure I didnt get it too hot
I then (using the tongs) bounce and slide the mouse around in front of the hide for a few minutes and then leave it there. Both times he has not hit it on the first go around. Both times I have observed (from a distance) him coming out and kind of checking out the mouse but leaving it alone. I then come back a while later (30 minutes to a couple of hours), remove the mouse, reheat with the heat lamp and do the eat me dance again. Both times I have gotten solid strikes within a minute or so. I usually put the lid back on and leave the snake alone for the next 24 hours or more so that he has ample time to digest it.

When I got him he had only eaten live rodents. Im happy that he is eating f/t, but am hoping I can get him to start eating on the first eat me dance and not have to wait for a period of time.

[carlthuringer]

Thanks for all the good advice!

I think I will try feeding him in the cage. I'm using the newspaper-chunk recycled substrate, so I hope it won't be a problem if he gets a bit in him when eating... or maybe I'll put the mouse on a little chunk of cardboard?

I noticed a trend of heating strategies; so it is important to warm the mouse? I wasn't sure if BPs had a sophisticated heat sense like venomous snakes often do, so I was more concerned with getting it warmed up in general.

When I place the mouse in his enclosure, should it be in the hot spot, in the middle, to one side or maybe I ought to just experiment...

Seems to me that the hot spot might be too hot.

[JLC]

Thanks for all the good advice!

I think I will try feeding him in the cage. I'm using the newspaper-chunk recycled substrate, so I hope it won't be a problem if he gets a bit in him when eating... or maybe I'll put the mouse on a little chunk of cardboard?

I noticed a trend of heating strategies; so it is important to warm the mouse? I wasn't sure if BPs had a sophisticated heat sense like venomous snakes often do, so I was more concerned with getting it warmed up in general.

When I place the mouse in his enclosure, should it be in the hot spot, in the middle, to one side or maybe I ought to just experiment...

Seems to me that the hot spot might be too hot.

That row of openings right above the mouth and below the eyes on the snake's face.....those are heat pits. They ARE heat sensitive when it comes to hunting. They use smell and heat to find their prey.

Also, it's critical that the snake not eat a partially frozen mouse, or even one that is thawed but still really chilled in the middle. Frozen or really cold meat can make them very sick.

I don't think it matters where in the enclosure you place the prey item. But if you find a spot that seems to work best, then use it. If the "hot spot" is "too hot" for any reason, then it's too hot for your snake as well. How are you heating and how are you measuring the temps?

[Ray_in_Texas]

I'm also somewhat new to this, but here's my experience so far:
My BP is very heat sensitive at feeding also, if the F/T mouse is very warm, he'll strike within a few seconds, if not may not strike at all until I re-warm it for him. I started using a feed box (Xlarge Sterlite shoe box) after switching from repti-carpet to aspen, just for piece of mind. After he takes the food I leave him be till the mouse is fully consumed and he starts exploring the box before putting him back in enclosure. Have had no issues with refusing to eat (once properly warmed) or re-gurge. Just experiment till find what works best for you and your snake.