Is my baby sick? (Some questions)

[dmcfarland]

I have had my snake for a little over two years. She is a ball-python, about three feet long, and about 2 1/2 inches wide at her thickest point. I have been feeding her 1 jumbo rat about once every other month. It usually takes her about 4-5 days of digestion before it "comes out the other end". I gave her one this passed Sunday (8-3-2008) and it did not digest? The "lump" stayed in her midsection until today and she apparently regurgitated it around 12:30 this afternoon. (I wasn't in the room when it happened)
Questions:

1) Is it possible that this "jumbo" rat was too large for her?

2) We have "hard" water here...is it possible that her drinking that water has effected her digestion over time?

3) Did she get any nurishment from that rat, or should I be trying to feed her again?

This is the first time anything like this has happened...she eats good, her sheds are slightly dry and patchy but regular, I keep the water in her enclosure fresh, and I handle her at least once a day. I would appreciate any help/advice even if I am freaking out about nothing...Thanks

[littleindiangirl]

Sure sounds that way. What are you keeping her in? Size, temps, how you measure the temps, what you provide heat with...

Most ball pythons are fed on a 7 day schedule, feeding them weanling rats every 7 days limits the chances of regurge from a too large of meal.

Give us a detailed rundown of the enclosure etc... but I will say this, we on the internet can NEVER replace a good reptile vet!

Also, from reading your past posts, I do hope you intend to interact and come back to post on this thread. We have lots of help to offer!

[Rapture]

1) Most likely the rat was too large. Like Connie said, smaller, more frequent meals would greatly reduce the chance of regurgitation.

2) I have very hard water here as well. Most of my snakes get spring water instead because of the damage that hard water does to the ceramic bowls, but the snakes that I do give the hard tap water to do just as well as the ones that get spring water. No regurges from water.

3) She likely didn't get much nourishment from it, but her insides might need a couple days to recouperate. When you do feed her again I'd feed her a small rat instead of a Jumbo.

4) When you mention you handle her at least once a day, do you also handle her the day after feeding? This could also cause a snake to regurge its meal.

[Argentra]

Hmm... yes that rat was most likely WAY too big. Ball Pythons do best on an every 7 day feeding schedule with no larger than a small adult rat for adult snakes.

As for the regurge, you'll need to wait at least 10 days with NO HANDLING and no food for their system to recover. After that, try offering a rat pup (smaller meal needed after the upset). If they eat the pup and keep it down, offer another pup 7 days later. Three straight feedings without regurge and you can up the size to a weanling rat, then finally a small adult every 7 days.

[dmcfarland]

Thanks...
Caress' enclosure is an aquarium. It's dimensions are 12 inches wide, 18 1/2 inches tall, and 30 inches long. I have two undertank heaters attached to the bottom that stay on constant, and a hood lamp light with a 75 watt bulb in it on top. I have two seperate exterior type thermometers that I keep balanced between 80 - 90 degrees. I keep a tupperware type container (about 15 inches long, 7inches wide, and about 3 inches deep) with fresh water in it daily. She has a little climbing branch on the same side as the water that extends over top of it, and one of those half log type things at the other end. (The idea was a warmer side and a cooler side to the enclosure) I try to handle her every day, but I leave her alone for a couple of days after feeding and shedding...
I have tried shorter rats and more frequent feedings, but she doesnt eat like that...she is quirky. (She will only eat dark colored male rats for some reason...anything but that and she will let it live in the enclosure with her for days?) After a couple weeks, perhaps iI could try 1 large rat every 10 - 12 days?
Thanks alot for all your help...I appreciate it.

[kc261]

Thanks...
Caress' enclosure is an aquarium. It's dimensions are 12 inches wide, 18 1/2 inches tall, and 30 inches long. I have two undertank heaters attached to the bottom that stay on constant, and a hood lamp light with a 75 watt bulb in it on top. I have two seperate exterior type thermometers that I keep balanced between 80 - 90 degrees. I keep a tupperware type container (about 15 inches long, 7inches wide, and about 3 inches deep) with fresh water in it daily. She has a little climbing branch on the same side as the water that extends over top of it, and one of those half log type things at the other end. (The idea was a warmer side and a cooler side to the enclosure) I try to handle her every day, but I leave her alone for a couple of days after feeding and shedding...
I have tried shorter rats and more frequent feedings, but she doesnt eat like that...she is quirky. (She will only eat dark colored male rats for some reason...anything but that and she will let it live in the enclosure with her for days?) After a couple weeks, perhaps iI could try 1 large rat every 10 - 12 days?
Thanks alot for all your help...I appreciate it.

Yikes! Don't let the rats live in the enclosure with her! They can decide to start eating the snake.

She might be less "quirky" if she felt a little more secure. BPs are shy animals and those half log hides don't feel hidden enough for them. Also it helps to have 2 hides, one in the warm side and one in the cool side, so the snake doesn't have to choose between feeling secure or thermoregulating.

I'm not sure what you mean by exterior thermometer. If you mean the kind that sticks on to the tank, that only measures the temperature on the glass (the outside of the glass), not on the substrate where the snake is. If you mean an indoor/outdoor thermometer with a probe, that is great.

Unless you have some sort of t-stat or rheostat (dimmer) on those UTHs and lamp, I bet the temps in the tank are too high.

[Inknsteel]

*Slips back into my kid gloves*

Ok, first, there are several things regarding your husbandry that you may need to reevaluate. I would like to offer up a few suggestions that may steer you in the right direction.

1. "Jumbo" rats are too large for even the largest bp. They do best when they are kept on a regular and consistent schedule. It is recommended for adults, 1 "small" rat every 7-10 days. This will help keep your bp feeding regularly, with fewer refusals and/or regurges.

2. I don't think hard water had anything to do with it. I would suggest however switching to a smaller water bowl. From the sounds of it, the water bowl you are currently using is taking up more than half the floor space of the enclosure. BPs don't need a water bowl large enough to soak in, just large enough to drink from.

3. You may be handling your bp too much. You said you handle your bp every day. How long per session and how many sessions per day? Ball pythons generally spend most of their time hiding, so handling them TOO much could be causing stress.

4. What do you have regulating the two UTHs that you said are on 24/7? The UTHs that you can buy from a pet store will generally heat up to somwhere between 120* and 140* Fahrenheit without a thermostat, rheostat, or at bare minimum, dimmer switch. Without any means to regulate the heat, you run risk of burning, if not cooking, your snake.

5. You indicated that you have tried different kinds of prey items. How often are you trying to feed? How frequently are you switching things around? Since you say your snake will only eat black male rats, then I would suggest finding an appropriately sized (read SMALL) black male rat once every 7-10 days.

6. NEVER leave prey items (especially adult rats) unattended in the snake's enclosure. Not for an hour, let alone days. There are many pictures out there of the damage that an adult rat can do to a snake when left unsupervised without fresh food and water. Your snake can BECOME fresh food very easily.

There is more that I would like to add to this post, but it's time for me to leave work. I will leave you with a final suggestion. Find the caresheets on this site. Read and study the caresheets, and adjust the things in the snake's environment that are needing to be adjusted. Give the snake a week to settle and adjust to the changes in the environment, and you should see definite improvement. Good luck, and don't hesitate to ask questions. Feel free to pm me with any questions, not saying I have all the answers, but I will try to help as much as I can.

[karma279]

At this point don't stress it...
Wait a week-10 days and try a large mouse/small rat. If he/she was normally a strong eater then maybe it'll take it. Then wait a week or so and go on your normal schedule.
A month without eating is not a huge deal for these guys................................

[karma279]

And correct... don't let a rodent stay in the tank alive unattended.

[littleindiangirl]

I think your husbandry is sorely off, and I would suggest following a caresheet to a T. You may have had this snake for 2 years, but eating monthly is not the norm for this species in captivity, and it is true that they spend most of their lives hiding underground in holes and burrows.

Here is a link to the caresheet, please read and follow as closely as possible to establish correct husbandry, and giving your animal the best chance.
http://ball-pythons.net/modules.php?...warticle&id=59

Everything said by Inknsteel is 100% correct.

1. Offering more than one hide spot to promote thermoregulation AND security. Not forcing the snake to choose one over the other because both can have serious consequences if there is no balance. One hide on each end of the enclosure in both climate zones.

2. Providing correct temperatures on both the hot spot and cool end for the snake, being controlled by a rheostat or thermostat. (thermostat is really the better choice for control)
Hot spot (1/3 the enclosure): 91-94
Ambient air temps: 80
Humidity: 60% (70% for shedding)

3. Measuring the temps properly! You must know the temps in the enclosure at all times. I use an Acurite thermometer/hygrometer with a probe to measure the hot spot. It has all 3 measurements on one screen for quick looks and check ups. A good thermometer/hygrometer is the an important tool for a snake keeper.

4. Keeping the snake in a low traffic area with minimal stressors. Often covering 3 sides with paper or board to give the snake a feeling of security. Filling up the enclosure with decorations or crumpled paper to promote that feeling of security so the animal thermoregulates its body temp. Offering many hides spots in a large enclosure.

5. Feeding appropriate sized prey to prevent regurges or long periods of fasting.


This does NOT have to be super expensive!! I would even suggest picking up a sterilite tub if you don't think you can provide this properly in a tank. A nice 28 -32 qt tub will provide security and insulation to correctly provide the right temps and humidity for this snake.

Again, read as many caresheets as possible and ask many questions. A lot of us have been where you are, and can offer suggestions to help you meet your snakes needs.