When did you start a Feeder Colony?

[Bundu Boy]

Hey All

My BP collection is starting to increase and I'm starting to look at the costs of keeping the little munchers fed.

Out of curiosity, at what stage did the collectors/breeders out there start their own feeder colony?

When did you say, "Hell, I'm spending too much on food!, Time to breed my own!"?

At the moment a mouse costs me 80c(R6.50) and a rat $1.20 (R9.50)

Also do you breed rats or mice. I've read that rats are a better option because they can cater for all sizes of Balls from hatchling to adulthood (without having to feed multiples i.e. mice at one sitting). Also some user here on BP.net say that mice stink more than rats.

Second to that if you don't feed live prey from your colony, how do you go about humanely killing them for f/t purposes?

Finally, what is the general breeding rate of rats and mice?

Thanks

[Bruce Whitehead]

I started my colony of feeders when I had one BP, in anticipation of 4 subadults that I had ordered from a breeder that was local to me.

It was great timing, although it took awhile to get the numbers figured out (I rehomed alot of rats that had gotten too big).

Started with 1 male and 3 females. I have had up to 20 snakes and the most breeder rats I had was 16.

Now I am down to 7 (1.6) and have 16 snakes.

Bruce

[Bruce Whitehead]

Missed a bit...

I feed rats, but have recently started raising ASFs as well. I loathe mice. They stink, they take forever to get to size, and the infantcide rate is quite high.

I CO2 my older rats, but if I am freezing pinks they go directly into the freezer.. they are resistant to CO2 and I have not found another way to kill them.

Bruce

[littleindiangirl]

I think we started breeding our own at 6 snakes, but we still ordered FT online. It's taken months to hold back and build the colony, and I think we've been completely free from the bill for 8 months now.

In this thread, there is a section of how to get one litter a week of rats and a nice rotation schedule going.
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=52894

I bet you can find the Natal rats/ African soft furreds around there. They breed like crazy and you'll have more than enough in no time.

[Beardedragon]

I started with only one snake breeding mice. Sold the extras off and since they did not grow fast I did not have to much to worry about. Got sick of them later and switched to rats again for only one snake. 'course ive got a few(6) snakes that will be coming in the next few months so im saving back alot of stuff for F/T.

[frankykeno]

When did you say, "Hell, I'm spending too much on food!, Time to breed my own!"?

At the moment a mouse costs me 80c(R6.50) and a rat $1.20 (R9.50)

I think it was around the time we had 5 BP's. We were feeding live and the only supplier for healthy, live rodents charged us (don't faint) $4.99 per rat. 5 snakes x 1 rat each per week s 4 weeks in the month x $5 a rat was coming out to about $125 or better a month so it was just sensible and cost effective to start breeding our own feeders.

Also do you breed rats or mice. I've read that rats are a better option because they can cater for all sizes of Balls from hatchling to adulthood (without having to feed multiples i.e. mice at one sitting). Also some user here on BP.net say that mice stink more than rats.

I've tried to breed mice twice with disasterous results. I suck at mouse breeding apparently and yes, mice smell far more strongly that regular rats or african soft furred (ASF) rats. Currently we do both regular and ASF rats but are moving more towards putting most of the collection on ASF's. We'll always breed the larger rats though for our larger snakes who would go through far too many ASF's due to their size.

Finally, what is the general breeding rate of rats and mice?

The regular rats can produce about every 2 months or so (allowing for gestation and nursing time). The ASF females pop out a litter about every 25 days and seem far less physically affected by back to back breeding activity. Our ASF's live in a permanent colony situation with one male and 2 to 4 females, their offspring until one month of age when they are removed for weaning, and any younger litters. They seem to do fine with that situation and co-operatively raise all young. I don't back to back breed my regular rats since it seems to have a harder impact on the females to carry a litter and also be actively nursing another one.

[adizziedoll]

I think I started around 6 or 7.

--- I would breed rats, for the reason you stated. I do have a tub of mice for my "princes and princesses" of the group, and are good for hatchlings as well. Never tried ASF's.

---I personally recommend investing in building a nice rack - even if you dont use all of the tubs right away, you will sooner or later.
I say this b/c I messed around with individual tubs from walmart (cutting the tops and inserting mesh) - and hated it. I felt like I was wasting time and space, and have had escapies. It could definately work for you, as I know it works for some others here, but I personally would just go ahead and build the rack if you're serious. I built this little friend : http://www.arbreptiles.com/cages/rat_rack/ratrack.shtml, without the watering system (i just stick water bottles through the mesh)
and LOVE it. It has Adequate ventilation (the key to your smelly issues), and it takes me like 10 minutes to clean the whole thing (with one empty tub to put the rats occupying the tub im cleaning). I did split the design in half (4 tubs high, 2 wide) just because of my attic design. I think it cost me all of $65 or so, and is well worth avoiding the aggravation of anything else. ** if you put mice it it, you need a smaller mesh, as wee ones get out of the bigger mesh - haha, trust, i know

---I put 2 females in each tub, and circulate the male once a week. I made it a habit to remember to switch the male when I feed snakes. By the 7th tub (7 weeks), it's time for the first tub to start again. Gestation is about 23 days or so.

---if you dont feed live, search this site for the co2 chamber designs. I've never done this before, so Ill let the experts explain that to you.

--- feeding a bunch of rats is a lot cheaper than buying them. I have my walmart rat food trip down to a science, and takes me longer to stand in line than to actually get the stuff in my cart. I spend about $30 i think, and it will last me 2-3 weeks. Is the sticky still there for becky's mix under feeders? It's been a while since i've been here I pretty much stick to that mixture -

How many snakes are you feeding? Im sure we would be happy to help you get started with a setup, how many to start with, a schedule, things of that nature

[Bruce Whitehead]

One of the diffs b/w rats and mice too... may have been addressed already... is the growth rate... I give all my snakes the odd week off, just to make sure I am not overfeeding and to keep everyone eating consistently.

It tends to fall when the rats are not producing.

But if you do end up with the odd dry spell as far as litters go, the rat pups will grow quite quickly and are more robust than mice.

I have fostered mice and ASFs to my regular rats when I think they are close to being weaned, but I want them just to get a bit of a "kick" up in size.

Bruce

[Bundu Boy]

Thanks for the great replies all Much appreciated..

I've seen ASF here on BP.net a lot but never actually knew what it means... now I know

Right now I've got 3 Ball, but should shortly be getting my hands on a 20month old pair of 100% het albinos. Then after that there'll be 3 hatchlings coming January. So by beginning of 2009 that'll be a total of 8 Balls. (8 (mice per week) x R6.50 x 52 weeks = R2704 per year minimum - more likely it'll be 14 mice per week or so if feeding older balls 2-3 per week, that's over R4500 per year, which would buy me a Pastel)

To keep things simple I'd probably want to get going with rats in order to feed right up the size chain.

First thing I wanna do is get more info on the ASF rats....

Keep the ideas coming y'all

[littleindiangirl]

I suggest visiting http://asfrats.info