More mud in the debate over WC Gravids

[janeothejungle]

I found this troubling on a variety of levels.....

market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=571033

[Monty]

why is it troubling thats how u get fresh blood in the lines and you dont have a bunch of inbreeding going on and who knows like he said in the post its crazy to see what comes out of wc eggs wish i had the chance for something like the pics that he has up

[MarkS]

Next time copy and paste the ad, or at least the parts you are talking about. It has already been removed and now we can't tell what you're talking about.

[Monty]

the thread was about a guy who got a bunch of gravid females and he got a completely cool looking woma spider looking thing out of an egg and a het red and a red out of another one. the one snake i would love to see in person. i think the guy who posted his last name was billingsly or something like that

[joepythons]

I think this is the ad she is talking about. http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=571034

[Monty]

yea thats it i like the one snake he shows after the yellow bellies

[joepythons]

yea thats it i like the one snake he shows after the yellow bellies

Yea that one is sweet looking i wonder what it is

[janeothejungle]

thats how u get fresh blood in the lines and you dont have a bunch of inbreeding going on

Hmm. How many bp's are currently in captive collections? So you're telling me that if bp imports were banned tomorrow, we'd be looking at severe inbreeding? Not likely. Look up minimum sustainable genetic resource or population size and I think you'll find that inbreeding is really only an issue for those who ignore it's basic tenet.

its crazy to see what comes out of wc eggs wish i had the chance for something like the pics that he has up

Yeah, but here's a part that bothers me. How many WC gravid imports would you be willing to go through to get that holy grail? What would you personally do with the females who 'didn't pan out' so to speak? Say 20. Say you had to go through 20 females to get one baby hatched that could be something. Say 1/4 of those females are never going to recover from the stress. So 15 females, right? I can see making room for 15 females or else taking the time and effort to get them clean and healthy before reselling them. But what if it wasn't twenty? What if it took 100 or a 1,000? Got room for 750 females (and burial space for the ones that didn't make it)? Got the time and inclination to do what is ethical for them? I find it to be a veritable Occam's Razor.

I'm not saying there isn't an ethic behind some people who choose to go this route. I just have to wonder if the bp market would really suffer if we imported over 50,000 bp's maybe every other year instead of every year? Or, if we took a good look at the stock that is already in captive collections and the multitude of possibilities that already exist in the alleles that are here, would it really hurt the market at all to wean itself off a bit, say by half?

Almost becomes a veritable catch-22, doesn't it?

[janeothejungle]

On the assumption that the ad will eventually go down, here it is

Past few weeks, you've seen quite a few ads for WC gravid female balls for sale.
Most wonder why people bother with them.
There is so much bad press on WC animals, including imported Ball Pythons.
Most of it is false. Completely false. People who have diffuclty with imports almost always comes down to husbandry.
They just don't take the time to sit them up correctly.
People usually buy Gravids for one of two reasons, First most want the experince with working with eggs, to gain knowledge before purchasing the more expensive pattern and color morphs. The second reason is, to see what comes out of the eggs that are laid!
Today, instead of showing you some pictures of gravid females I have for sale, I would like to show you some pictures of some of what I have gotten from WC gravid female clutches:

Het Red Axanthic and Red Axanthic:

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Some nice Yellow Bellies:

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Even a new morph:

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Each year, I get to select females that come in, and I always find some that I want to add to my breeding colony.
Here, for example are some WC females that I held onto.
They are still in my collection, feeding, thriving and are being bred this year to male morphs. I live what I preach.

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Once WC females are settled in, they do just as well as CB.
I truely enjoy working with the females that come into the country. I hope you will also.
I have a nice selection of females for sale.
Most are in the 2000 to 2500 range.
I'm asking $125 to $150. Larger females range in the $200 to $250 range.
I accept PayPal.
I can ship both Fed Ex and Delta.
I can do wholesale lots also, just ask.
If you have any questions, would like to see some pictures of some gravids, or just need general information, feel free to call or email.
(*contact info removed)

The season is winding down, and only about two more weeks before it is finished. So, if your on the fence.....

thanks for viewing my ad, and if you have any comments on my ad, please let me know..... thanks

[Gib]

Im definitly not a fan of importing gravid females either...

I dont mind the CH thing so much because its atleast a semi renewable resource....htey go out collect these girls every year and turn them loose...and not too much of a hit to the local ecosystem....and I cant understand why the Exporters in africa would shoot themselves in the foot this way...this basically the only way alot of these folks earn money

and for alot of these big girls its a quick death sentence because there arent alot of ppl in this hobby that have the time,patience,experience or resources to acclimate these big animals