A synopsis.. any guesses?

[JuliaGoolia]

A little (or not so little) synopsis of the past two months and an update.. sort of. The few of you who have read or been following my past threads may remember what’s been going on…
In October, my son (read: my husband and I!) got our first little baby girl ball. She was great! She even ate (live) for a consistent 4 weeks. She liked being held (or so we’d like to think) had her first shed, grew a little.. all was good!

And then one day she wasn’t.

She started coiling like she had no upper body motor/muscle control. I researched, I asked for advice, and I freaked out!! We took her to a vet in the next town (we live in the boonies…) and although she wasn’t a herp specialist, she did see exotics. After looking at her and diagnosing what she thought was an inner ear infection, the vet prescribed VAL syrup (every day) and Baytril (every 2) to be given orally.
She was getting better.. and stronger.. but still didn’t have a lot of head control. She could get to where she wanted to go, but sometimes she had a tough time of it. We called the vet back, and she prescribed yet ANOTHER med - metronidazole in addition to the other two we were giving her. We learned later, after we had been giving it to her, it is to kill bacteria that may be in the stomach and intestines to stimulate appetite. Now, through all the help I’ve received here, I’ve learned that snakes usually won’t eat while they are on meds – so why on earth would the doctor have done that?? Anyway… when we learned that, we stopped giving it to her – because, really – what was the point? All it was doing was stressing her out more when we had to give it to her.
She’s had a second shed since the meds started, although we had to help her with it a bit on her head. She’s passed two urates, and one little poop (from the last time she fed - what seems forever ago…)At first I was concerned about her not eating, as she ate pretty regularly before, until I heard that they really won’t when they are sick/under medication. I know she’s drinking – I’ve watched her.
She’s been off the meds for a week and a few days.. we’ve kind of left her alone, aside from changing out her water, to recover from all the stress we were giving her shoving all this liquid down her throat..
My one big fear was that she wouldn’t be able to eat, even if she wanted to - what with her lack of total control of her head, I wasn’t sure she would be able to strike, even when she got hungry again. It seems as that is exactly what is happening. She’s eaten live, large mice before. That’s what she’s used to. *sigh* It took her a while to get around to sniffing him out, but once she did, it was just sad to watch. She was hungry. Her little tail was twitching.. she kept going where the mouse was going… but her head and neck just didn’t have the control to get a good line on him, and kept twisting the wrong way. Finally, we took the mouse and killed it… tried dangling that in front of her, thinking maybe she wouldn’t have to have so much control to get a grip on it, even though feeding that way was kind of foreign to her. I think it WOULD have worked, had she not missed, grabbed a hold of HERSELF, and tried to constrict herself!! We ended up taking the feeding tongs and stroking her back a little to get her out of the knot she put herself in and she finally let go of herself.. but when we tried with the mouse again, she just got all agitated and didn’t try. No interest what-so-ever.
I just don’t know what to do. She is better than she was when we first took her to the vet - but she is NOT well. Tomorrow, I am going to call a different vet to take her to, but once again, it’s not a herp specialist, just one that sees “exotics”. It seems you guys are my biggest asset when it comes to taking care of her.. the vet we TOOK her to, didn’t seem to really know what she was doing.. and the reptile store – which is a small, family owned place – which I thought was a great place here in our little town, - I’m not so sure about anymore, either. When we went in and asked if they carried thermostats of any kind, the self proclaimed “snake guy” asked what we wanted it for..!!
I can only guess that whatever happened to her is neurological.. although, I have no idea what it could have been.
Like I said, she is our first. WE have been learning and getting things almost perfect as far as husbandry goes, although, I do admit, humidity has been a bit of a challenge, as we have her in a glass tank, but it hasn’t been bad enough to cause permanent damage, I don’t think!
Like I said, we are going to call a different vet tomorrow – but if anyone has any thoughts about what it could be, PLEASE let me know.. I’m pretty much at my wits end…
-J

btw - for more details and such, my other threads may be of interest...

[xdeus]

I think it's a good idea that you're getting a second opinion from another vet, hopefully one that is experienced with reptiles and snakes in particular.

It does sound neurological, but hopefully the new vet will be able to make a correct diagnosis. You might also have to consider assist-feeding if your snake is losing too much weight or is too weak to eat on his own. Force feeding should only be used as a last resort, but assist feeding isn't nearly as stressful. Essentially you will have to place a small, prekilled mouse in your snakes mouth and pull on the mouse a little to latch on to his teeth. Then just leave hi alone and allow him to continue to swallow. Sometimes it takes two or three attempts to get it to work.

Your vet should be able to tell if you if its necessary, though. It's much less stressful to allow your snake to eat on his own, but sometimes you might not have that luxury.

Good luck!

[bender29]

It definitely sounds neurological with the loss of motors skills... and sadly if that's the case, it doesn't spell good news for your snake.

Either way, best wishes and good luck.

[JuliaGoolia]

Well.. we bring her in to this different vet Wednesday afternoon. Hopefully, she knows a little more about snakes/pythons than the other vet did.

If, in fact, it is neurological, what then? Assist feed for the rest of her life? Would it be better to have her put down? I have grown attached to this little thing... but I sure don't want her to have any sort of sad snake life.....

[bender29]

Well.. we bring her in to this different vet Wednesday afternoon. Hopefully, she knows a little more about snakes/pythons than the other vet did.

If, in fact, it is neurological, what then? Assist feed for the rest of her life? Would it be better to have her put down? I have grown attached to this little thing... but I sure don't want her to have any sort of sad snake life.....

Yes. Sadly, it would be most humane to euthanize her if she wasn't able to gain her motor skills back.

Regardless though, you need to get her to a Vet that knows what he's doing. She could have a bacterial infection near the brain, which is possibly treatable. She also could have an amoebic infection (such as IBD) which isn't treatable. It could even be toxins from your bedding, paint, chemicals etc. There are tons of possibilities and symptoms when it comes to neurological disorders, but sadly they usually aren't treatable.

Depending on what the problem is, you could assist feed her for the rest of her life, but what sort of life is that?

[SatanicIntention]

I still don't see what the hold-up is with moving her to a tub enclosure. She is likely very stressed out from being exposed on all sides. It's time to make the snake's needs a top priority and not what you're worried the enclosure will look like. Tubs can look nice, I promise. For a baby as small as her, you'll want at least a 15qt tub, but I would do a 6qt and slowly move her up as she starts eating and has had alot of meals.

Let her rest a week(no bothering except to change water), go get a small live hopper mouse, pre-scent the room for about 30 minutes to an hour, and then drop the mouse in. Close the enclosure up, and leave the room, leaving the mouse in overnight.

What type of neurologic problem does she have? What symptoms does she have? If the meds haven't worked by now, then they aren't going to work. If she has a respiratory infection, then the vet needs to do a culture, have that sent off, and find out what antibiotic is appropriate to use. Why in the world did the previous vet use VAL syrup??

[JuliaGoolia]

I still don't see what the hold-up is with moving her to a tub enclosure. She is likely very stressed out from being exposed on all sides. It's time to make the snake's needs a top priority and not what you're worried the enclosure will look like.

I explained in another thread, but she is NOT exposed. The three sides are covered and insulated, the top is covered, and at night, the front is covered. The tank inside is pretty much minimalized, with pretty much NO decoration, because we HAVE been concerned about her. She has what she needs. Two small hides, her water, some moss, and a little log to rub up on if/when she went into a shed. Her conditions are fine - and although I understand many people choose tubs over tanks, it is a CHOICE - and her temps are pretty much perfect, and humidity really isn't bad, though it's been a struggle.

Let her rest a week(no bothering except to change water), go get a small live hopper mouse, pre-scent the room for about 30 minutes to an hour, and then drop the mouse in. Close the enclosure up, and leave the room, leaving the mouse in overnight.

Once again - already been done - and written in my post. Actually that is what prompted me to write this time.. because we did that - and she didn't eat.

What type of neurologic problem does she have? What symptoms does she have? If the meds haven't worked by now, then they aren't going to work. **cut** Why in the world did the previous vet use VAL syrup??

When I started this thread, I explained the problems she was having. I am not GIVING her any medications right now, they ended over a week ago as was already stated.

I have no idea why she used VAL syrup. She told us that it was a vitamin supplement and anti-inflamitory. She was the vet - and at the time, we thought she knew what she was doing. After doing our own research, we won't be going back to her.

I do appreciate help and advice, guys.. the abundance of knowledge here has helped me SO much.. but please - if I'm going to be attacked, atleast attack for legit reasons, and read what I actually write.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

She has what she needs. Two small hides, her water, some moss, and a little log to rub up on if/when she went into a shed. Her conditions are fine - and although I understand many people choose tubs over tanks, it is a CHOICE - and her temps are pretty much perfect, and humidity really isn't bad, though it's been a struggle.

You can take this as you want but here are my 2 cents, some BP do well in tanks some don’t even with proper temps and hides. While the health problem probably have been a main factor in your BP’s refusal to eat, you have not tried everything that could be tried.

Force-feeding should again be done as last resort when everything as failed, everything includes switching the animal to a tub, no one is saying it should be permanent but it should be tried before attempting to force feed.

I have seen healthy BP with proper temps, hides etc refusing to eat while in a tank and resuming feeding when switch to a tub.

[JuliaGoolia]

You guys have to understand... she's not refusing to eat. She's unABLE to eat. She tried, and just can't do it. She doesn't have the control to get a good line on the mouse and strike... and the more excited about the mouse she gets, the more... loopy??.. she gets. It's hard to explain without seeing it. We've tried two Saturdays in a row now, since she's been off all her meds - and both times, there is a sincere effort .. that's why this last time, we offered it to her freshly killed, thinking she wouldn't need such precision to eat.. and that's when she missed the mouse and grabbed herself instead.
I just don't know if trying again next week will stress her out, or giver her another chance. I guess we'll see what this vet says on Wednesday....

[wicked5446]

Im sorry about your little girl, a lot of vets that take exotics have no clue how to treat them. Has she lost weight? if she hasn't i wouldnt try feeding until she gets better it will probably just make her more stressed. Good luck i hope she gets better.