Blue-eyed Lucy's Mojave x Lesser

[Brimstone111888]

I was reading Kevin's book that I just recently got that a BEL has been produced from a mojave x lesser. Wouldn't that make them the same or very close to it?

[Brimstone111888]

Also I would like to add. Of the 3 snakes known to produce BEL's(Butter, Lesser, Mojave), some have a very hard time picking a specific one out of a lineup. Ive seen lessers that look like mojaves and Ive seen lessers look like butters.

I've read a few threads on here also with people not being able to identify one from the other.

Now I've heard other things like lessers make better BEL's or butters do. Do ALL lessers make great BEL's or if the lesser looks mojavish will it not be as white?

[BChambers]

Yes-mojaves are a member of the complex of morphs which, when bred together, produce blue-eyed leucistics (butter, mojave, platinum, lesser, woma and mocha). As far as your other questions, I'd refer you to the two "Lucy poll" threads below, in which the subject is covered pretty thoroughly....

[RandyRemington]

FYI, although the homozygous woma (the pearl) is white (and apparently not viable) as far as I know it isn't compatible with the other members of this complex. I'm thinking woma is a separate white snake gene like yellow belly and fire outside of the lesser complex. But off hand I can't remember for sure if I've seen something like a woma lesser to prove that cross has been put to the test.

Also, I believe the platinum is it's self a super of sorts in this group like the BEL or the super phantom and not a het normal version like lesser or mojave.

[BChambers]

Randy is correct-I did not mean to imply that the woma was a member of the group in the sense that crossing it with the others will necessarily produce a leucistic. That being said, the Lesser Woma is a strikingly different silver/gray patterned snake (see pg 267 of Kevin McCurley's book), indicating that the woma gene is related in some way to the platinum complex. Lots of breeding still needs to be done, obviously.

[jknudson]

FYI, although the homozygous woma (the pearl) is white (and apparently not viable) as far as I know it isn't compatible with the other members of this complex. I'm thinking woma is a separate white snake gene like yellow belly and fire outside of the lesser complex. But off hand I can't remember for sure if I've seen something like a woma lesser to prove that cross has been put to the test.

Randy, isn't the pearl viable...just homozygous lethal? For some reason I thought the pearl was produced, just didn't live very long.

[RandyRemington]

Maybe "viable" wasn't the right word. Is that specific to hatching or could it also mean living long enough to breed? Actually either way I'm not sure; check NERD's site for how they describe it. There was an imported adult mentioned a few years ago as possibly being a pearl but I never heard if that was confirmed so maybe there is hope for them. But for now it looks like the woma is mainly useful for combos and hopefully the word is out like it is for spider so that no one is buying the morph for the super (pearl). Spiders have enough cool combos and it seems most everyone has given up on breeding them together so spider pricing hasn't been driven by speculation of a cool super for years. You still occasionally hear of someone buying a spider without knowing about the spinning but some how or another hopefully most buyers are being informed.

[jknudson]

I guess I'm being picky...by non-viable I think an animal dying while in the egg...underdeveloped. But like always, thanks for the information.

[Brimstone111888]

The pearls that lived died. They have motor skills problems and don't eat properly. Kevin says also that is probably because it has been inbred so much.

[Emilio]

I two saw a mojave at Amir's shop one time that blew me away it looked very much like a lesser. I have a lesser and in the long run will be getting a mojave female too I want to produce a bel from lesserx lesser and lesserx mojave.