Continuous or Cycle breed?

[littleindiangirl]

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1447856,1450228

It's not really a debate, but on KS, it is argued that if the rats have enough food, they can easily get 5 litters out before they are made into feeders themselves on continuous harem breeding.

I know that all I can really expect out of cycle breeding is a good 5-6 litters before they are retired or fed off.

I don't know how old they are after 5 continuous litters, and I have no proof if it is detrimental to their health. All I know is that wild rats average about a year, and they will produce in high amounts until there are too many. I don't know how many litters they get out, but I'm pretty sure it's not 5 litters a year.

Just looking for some evidence for both sides of the story I guess.
(I personally cycle, and like to have my rats around for as long as they naturally can)

[Malika13]

I personally think cycle breeding is the best way to go. I mean the girls get a break and your breeders will last longer. And your snakes will be very happy...

[J.Vandegrift]

I leave mine together always. In 1.3 groups but to be honest I don't really know how long or how many litters I get out of my females. I am sure I may get another litter or two out of my females if I did cycle them but I have not tested that to find out. I usually keep the females around until they get that ragged out look to them and then I sell them off to friends with boas but their are a few that I keep around until they die naturally (I feel bad feeding off females that were especially good breeders for me). My oldest female is about 2 years old. She still looks healthy but she does not really produce much for me anymore. Her last litter was about 4 months ago and it was only 6 pinks where she used to give me 15-20 when she was in her prime.

[littleindiangirl]

I leave mine together always. In 1.3 groups but to be honest I don't really know how long or how many litters I get out of my females. I am sure I may get another litter or two out of my females if I did cycle them but I have not tested that to find out. I usually keep the females around until they get that ragged out look to them and then I sell them off to friends with boas but their are a few that I keep around until they die naturally (I feel bad feeding off females that were especially good breeders for me).

Okay, do you happen to know how long they last for you? Years wise? And, do you have any weights on the feeders? I'm just trying to compare notes here

[edit]
I hope this doesnt turn into a brow beating session

[J.Vandegrift]

Okay, do you happen to know how long they last for you? Years wise? And, do you have any weights on the feeders? I'm just trying to compare notes here

[edit]
I hope this doesnt turn into a brow beating session

Do you mean the weights of the breeders, feeders, or newborn pinks? I feed them off at various sizes, but I wean them at about three weeks and then usually give them another week or two to put on a little size. I generally feed all of my adults bp's feeders that are around 100g. Are you thinking that the litters grow slower when with non cycled mothers? I personally don't think it negatively affects the litters growth rate, and in some cases I think it may actually make the litter grow faster due to the fact that the babies can get fed by more than one female. My females range from only lasting about 9 months up to my oldest female that is around 2 years old. The shorter life span females seem to be more due to the heat in the summer than being overbred though. I rarely have any die in the winter months.

[littleindiangirl]

Are you thinking that the litters grow slower when with non cycled mothers? I personally don't think it negatively affects the litters growth rate, and in some cases I think it may actually make the litter grow faster due to the fact that the babies can get fed by more than one female. My females range from only lasting about 9 months up to my oldest female that is around 2 years old. The shorter life span females seem to be more due to the heat in the summer than being overbred though. I rarely have any die in the winter months.

Right, I'm just seeing how things go with the cycle harem breeding. So the females don't live as long, and can you say that if one mother is slacking for any reason, the others pick up her slack?

Do you happen to have an average age of mothers, like 1 year or maybe 9 months?
And do you think that if the females were cycled with even 2 weeks off if it would make a difference in number of litters?

Another thing, what is the average number in a litter?

LOL, sorry for all the questions, but I just want to know from someone that has done it.

[Ginevive]

I cycle my females. I give them some time off between breedings. I do not have a hard-set time for this; I just read te female. If she is robust and none the worse for wear, I could re-breed her in as little as 10 days from her babies being weaned. If she was maybe a tad small when bred, I definately give her as much time off as she seems to need, to grow. This only applies to girls I purposely, or accidentally, bought as preggers; I do Not breed my own raised-up females when they are too young/small.

[lord jackel]

One thing Harem breeders don't take into account is the size and quality of the offspring litters. Yes, you will get about the same number of litters (on average) regardless if you give the breeders a break or not...but with Harem litters they tend to be fewer in number each time, smaller in size (weight) and though hard to prove would have less nutrients. (the breeder is supplying all the nutrients - vitamins, calcium, etc....as hers are depleted each litter with less time to recoop them then the next litter is shorted). Usually with Harem breeders the last litter is the worst - and results in the death of the breeder from exhaustion.

I have bred for 10+ years and done it both ways and can say from experience there is a difference in quality and output from the 2 methods.

Hope this helps.

[J.Vandegrift]

Right, I'm just seeing how things go with the cycle harem breeding. So the females don't live as long, and can you say that if one mother is slacking for any reason, the others pick up her slack?

Do you happen to have an average age of mothers, like 1 year or maybe 9 months?
And do you think that if the females were cycled with even 2 weeks off if it would make a difference in number of litters?

Another thing, what is the average number in a litter?

LOL, sorry for all the questions, but I just want to know from someone that has done it.

I can not say for sure on you first two questions because I do not really have anthing to compare it to. As for size of litters, I would say the average is around 10-12. But I have some females that give 15+ and some that only give 6-8. I actually think the smaller litters may be do to me being an idiot and holding back the cool looking females rather than always picking the biggest to hold back. Honestly though, if I had more space and did not mind cleaning a bunch of extra tubs I probably would cycle the females. For me though the extra time, space, cost, and just having all of those extra adult female rats to feed and raise is not worth the slightly larger litters and slightly longer life span on the females. I don't really worry too much about litter size or anything like that. As long as I have enough rats at the end of the week to feed my collection I am happy. I just feed them Mazuri, keep them watered and clean and collect my feeders at the end of the week.

[lillyorchid]

I know I cycle most of my female rats. A few of my big female breeders I'll breed back to back twice and then give that female some time off. Most of my females I'll breed and once that litter is weaned that female rat gets a month off before being placed back in with a male. I don't have a huge number of snakes, so I don't need to breed a lot of rats.