Newbie Questions

[walkerc]

Please excuse the long post, I just want to make sure I am clear on my questions.

I made the classic mistakes of 1) an impulse buy, and 2) trusting the pet store guy. The snake is a pet for my son (6 years old) who has asthma, which rules out the normal furry pets. Since this pet store specializes in reptiles, I thought they would know how to properly set up an enclosure. My room mate in college had a Ball Python, and I handled it often, which is why I considered this a good option.

So what I was sold was:
1 - 30 Gal Breeder (36" wide, 18" deep, 12" high) with screen top
1 - Reflector Light, with a 100 Watt Red basking bulb
1 - Hide Box
1 - Water bowl
1 - Bag Substrate (some type of shredded wood shavings)
1 - Very friendly young Ball Python - approx 12" - 18" long

My instructions from the pet store were:
1) Put the light on top of the screen at one end, leave it on 24/7.
2) Put the water dish at the opposite end
3) Put the hide box on the warm end (under the light)
4) Leave the screen open

I keep my house between 74 and 78 year round, so I am more conserned with overheating then underheating. I bought a thermometer from another pet store, to check how things were doing. It is a mechanical gauge type thermometer, which I since learned is not very accurate.

Issues:
1) I checked the temp (with the crappy thermometer) and it read 100 at the warm end and 76 at the cool end.
2) It seems like the light is too bright, being on all the time, and it looks like day all the time
3) I read that you should at least partially cover the top, to keep the heat and humidity in, but also you need to provide adequate ventillation. I tried covering the middle third of the top with aluminum foil, but the temp on the warm end went up to 105 (again on the crappy thermometer), so I removed it.
4) I have read you should have at least 2 hides.
5) I have also read that you should use one (or multiple) under tank heaters UTH.
6) I have read that you should use a ceramic heat emitter CHE

Questions:
So my basic question is: What is the best setup for my cage / room temp / snake??? Please keep recommendations to reasonable cost, at the same time, I want to buy the right equipment once, so that I get this straightened out.
1) Do I need to use UTH's, if so, how many / what size / placed where??? It looks like there is room for at least 2 or 3 medium sized UTHs (Zoo Med Medium OK?) Should I put some or all on a rheostat / thermostat?? Is the Zoo Med rheostat or thermostat OK?? Should they be adjusted so one is on high (warm end) and the other is turned down (cool end)??
2) Should I switch the light out for a CHE?? If so what wattage / placed where / rheostat or thermostat again??
3) Should I cover part or all of the cage?? Plexiglass?? How much ventilation space??
4) Where should I place hides (and how many?) and water dish??

Anything else I should be doing???

Thanks in advance.

Craig

[Enve]

All of your questions can be answered here....

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=55849

and here....

http://www.ball-pythons.net/modules....warticle&id=59

Welcome to the boards and good luck with your new little guy

[Stewart_Reptiles]

I made the classic mistakes of 1) an impulse buy, and 2) trusting the pet store guy.

Well the good thing is that you are not the only one, and it can be fixed.

Here is something I wrote a while back, hope this help!

Supply Check list

1 Enclosure

Your enclosure should not be too big the bigger the enclosure the more stress you will cause to your Ball Python, remember that in their natural environment they spend 70 to 80 % of their time in a tight termite mount.

If you get a baby you will only need a 10 gallons to start with and if you chose an adult a 30/40 gallons is all you will ever need. Use the rule of thumb the enclosure should be 2/3 of the length of your Ball Python.

No matter which enclosure you chose remember to secure the lid as Ball Pythons are real escape artists.

1 UTH (Under Tank Heater)

Here are some products that will allow you to provide belly heat and achieve the required gradient temperatures in your enclosure: Ultratherm Heat Pads, T Rex Cobra Pads and Flexwatt Heat Tape (Unlike some other they do not stick permanently to the enclosure).

1 Thermostat

Regardless of the device you chose to provide heat you will need a thermostat, this will allow you to maintain proper temperatures and avoid over-heating.

I would highly recommend you to invest in a digital thermostat such as Ranco ETC-111000 and Johnson on the lower end, or Herpstat Digital Proportional Thermostat and Helix on the higher end, they might seem expensive but they are worth it. Keep in mind that if you get a cheap thermostat like the ESU 1 outlet or 3 outlets starting at 25 dollars you will get what you paid for, considering how long your BP will live you will want to invest in something durable, reliable and safe.

2 Hides

Provide one hide on each side of the enclosure. Ideal hides must be dark, tight (All side touching your Ball Python's body) and identical so your Ball Python does not chose between security and thermo-regulation. In my opinion the best hides are ESU/Zilla Creature Cubbyholes.

1 Water Dish

Contrary to what many believe the water dish does not have to be big enough for your BP to soak (Healthy, mite free BP rarely soak).

1 Thermometer/Hygrometer

When it comes to temperatures and humidity you cannot guess you MUST know. (Avoid stick and dial devices as they are not accurate). To get an accurate reading I would recommend a digital device such as Acu-Rite Hygrometer/Thermometer that can be found at Walmart for 12$ or Zilla Terrarium Hygrometer/Thermometer.

Substrate

Here are some substrates that can be used in your BP's enclosure: Newspaper - Paper Towel - Aspen - Repti-bark - Cypress Mulch etc. DO NOT use pine or cedar bedding as they contain phenols that can be toxic to your snake.

Temperatures

You will need to provide your Ball Python with a warm side between 90-94 F (32.5-34.5 C) degrees and a cool side between 80-84 F (27-29 C) degrees.

Humidity

You should provide your Ball Python with a constant 50%-60% humidity level. This level can be increased to 70% during the shedding period if necessary.

Feeding

A lot of care sheets will recommend feeding a prey equivalent to the girth size (widest part of your Ball Python's body) once every 5 to 7 days for young BP and every 7 to 10 days for adults.

Personally I feed a prey slightly smaller then the girth size once a week, in my experience by doing this it allows BP to eat with more consistency.

A Small Rat (4 weeks old) or 2 to 3 mice once a week, will be sufficient even for the largest adults.

Remember if you chose to feed live you must always supervise feeding and never let a prey unattended with your snake.

Do not handle your Ball Python for the next 48 hours following feeding. If handle to soon after a meal this could lead to regurgitation.

[walkerc]

Thank you both for your replies, they are very helpful. You both seem to have confirmed the UTH approach as well as 2 hides. I am still unclear as to how many heaters I will need. Is one sufficient (trying to avoid trial and error approach)??

I see in the first link (from ENVE) that they recommend covering the entire top of the enclosure, however the second one warns against restricting ventilation. This seems contradictory, which is why I asked how much of my enclosure top should be covered. It seems I would want to cover as much as possible to keep in heat and humidity, just don't want to suffocate the little guy.

Also in the second link, they recommend a CHE as a "supplement to a UTH to help maintain warm enough ambient temps." I assume this is what I would put on the thermostat??? Should it be on the warm end, or in the middle of the enclosure??? What Wattage would work best??

Lastly, should the water dish be in the middle, or at the cool end as the pet store person recommended??

I will pick up an Accu-rite tomorrow.

Thanks again.
Craig

[Enve]

As long as your ambient temps are above 80 you should only need the UTH on one side of the tank. The going trend here on the screen top is about 3/4's of the screen being covered (to keep in the humidity and temps). CHE, red or blue heating light is only necessary if your ambient temps are low, and yes it should be on either a rheostat or thermostat as should your UTH. As for water dish placement it all really depends on your humidity, if it's too low put the dish on the hot side, too high put it on the cool side. I keep mine in the middle and adjust as needed to one side or the other. Hope that helps

[NickP]

I'd say cover 95% of the screen. Leave the 5% off on one of the ends. On the other cut out a small square and put your lamp there. That way there is room on the other end for air to escape.

Regarding the heating sources: Use 2 heating sources with two thermostats. I have a 50 watt red light bulb that heats the cooler end to max 84 degrees F. I use the thermostat to make sure it won't get hotter than that. On the other end I have two UTHs attached that heat it to max of 94. Also MAKE SURE you check the temps in the hide. I decided to see why my bp was not going in the warmer side's hides at all and it turns out even though outside of it was only 92, in the hide itself the temp was 98!! No wonder he would hide in it and when the room was quite and dark he would come out and go on top of his hide, and today decided to go in the cooler end's hide.

[frankykeno]

Questions:
So my basic question is: What is the best setup for my cage / room temp / snake??? Please keep recommendations to reasonable cost, at the same time, I want to buy the right equipment once, so that I get this straightened out.

Welcome to BPNet Craig, you've received some excellent advice so all I'll add is some links and pictures to help you further adjust your snake's living situation.

First thing is the size of that tank. It's going to be a bit of an issue for you to get sorted out due to it's size and the size of this snake. Pet stores ALWAYS sell large tanks. They aren't the best tanks for small ball pythons who are very shy creatures and the pet stores make more money at your expense.

I would suggest you get a very reasonable plastic storage tub from any department store or dollar store. This shouldn't cost anything more than $5.00. Grab a box of large black binder clips to secure the lid (no plastic lid alone will hold a snake). These should cost about $2.00. Other than that you need something to put holes in the sides and lid of the tub. A drill will work though if you aren't careful it can split the tub. I use a simple soldering wand to melt the holes in a well ventilated area. If you don't own one they are about $6.00 at Walmart.

Here's a picture to help illustrate....



You want a tub that is only 6 inches or so deep and has just enough floor space for the hides and a dish. Very basic stuff. That big tank could either be saved until this snake is an adult or returned to the store if they will take it back.

1) Do I need to use UTH's, if so, how many / what size / placed where??? It looks like there is room for at least 2 or 3 medium sized UTHs (Zoo Med Medium OK?) Should I put some or all on a rheostat / thermostat?? Is the Zoo Med rheostat or thermostat OK?? Should they be adjusted so one is on high (warm end) and the other is turned down (cool end)??

You might want to consider this product sold by Rich at Reptile Basics.

http://www.reptilebasics.com/Ultrath...p-1-c-273.html

According to Rich it does not require a theromostat or rheostat and they are very reasonably priced. Rich's phone number is on his website, he's extremely knowledgeable about heating for snakes so give him a call and he'll set you up properly for either a small tub or that big tank (I'd definitely go with the small tub though).

2) Should I switch the light out for a CHE?? If so what wattage / placed where / rheostat or thermostat again??

See above, I'd go with that UTH and a small tub, then you don't need anything else. The problem with big glass tanks with mess lids are they let out heat and humidity and lights suck even more humidity out making your life even more difficult.

3) Should I cover part or all of the cage?? Plexiglass?? How much ventilation space??

If you go with a tub you won't have to worry about this. If you stay with the big glass tank you will have to cover a good part of that big mesh lid, allowing for some ventilation. You also have to add in things to fill up the open areas as ball pythons, especially small ones like yours, do not like big open spaces at all.

4) Where should I place hides (and how many?) and water dish??

Two identical hides, one per side. Water dish should be heavy, easy to clean and not easy to tip. I prefer heavy white ramekins found in any kitchenwares aisle in any major department store or some dollar stores. It does NOT have to be big enough for the snake to soak in. Healthy ball pythons rarely soak. In the picture above that's just a small animal water dish I picked up in a pet store for a couple of bucks.

Hides as you can see from the picture above can be anything dark, barely bigger than your snake is coiled up and easy for you to clean. Hit up the dollar store, grab a couple of dark colored small bowls and melt or cut in an entrance hole on the side or the lid. Your snake will use this type of hide and you will spend only a dollar or two at the most.

Typical baby ball python tucked up tightly in his smaller than cereal bowl size hide.



Ramekins...



To monitor your heat and humidity nothing beats an Acu-Rite for cost effectiveness. They run around $10 at WalMart, also at Lowe's and Home Depot under a different brand name. They can read two temps and humidity (don't forget the AAA battery). You put the actual unit on the cool end, run the probe over to the warm end and tuck it into the warm side hide. Push a few buttons you get...

IN temp - cool side temp
OUT temp - warm side inside the hide temp
HUMIDITY - ambient humidity of the enclosure



Hope this helped.

[walkerc]

Thanks all for helping me out here, it is greatly appreciated.

One recurring piece of advice was to go with a smaller enclosure to start off with.

I am trying to figure out a way to put a divider into my tank, maybe movable, so that I can let the tank grow with the snake. That way I will not have to buy any temporary enclosures. I am thinking of cutting a piece of foam, tight fitting, from bottom to top, then I can just slide it left or right to make the cage any size I want.

Has anyone ever tried something like this???
Any opinions on if it would work???

I have some shopping to do...accurite, UTH, dual hides...etc

Thanks again
Craig

[SatanicIntention]

A 15qt tub would only cost around $3-$4 and will last the snake until it weighs around 700g+, then you can move it to a 27qt or 32qt sterilite tub, whihc are about $4-$6 depending on type. If the snake is male, the 32qt tub will last for life, if female, you'll want to go for the 41qt tub.

I would go for a plastic tub, they are so much easier to get babies started in and get them eating consistently. It will also be much easier to maintain in regards to temperatures and humidity, so less stress on your part.

[frankykeno]

Like Becky says Craig I'd say just go with a small tub right now. You can mess about trying to split that large tank but likely it will be more work than it's really worth. If you do want to split it, however, avoid anything porous as it will grow nasty fast from feces, urine, spilled water, etc. You could hit up Home Depot or Lowe's and grab a small piece of plexiglass, likely around $6.00 for the size you would need. Then you'd have to keep it in place without something appropriate, probably aquarium type silicone sealant so it's snake safe. All that, well will likely cost you more than a tub though and I'm not sure how easy it would be to remove the piece later on.

You'd still need to address the mesh lid because that is going to continue to cause you fits over stablizing temps and humidity appropriate for a ball python.