Dom x Normal

[NateDogg13]

Dom x Normal = 50% showing morph

What my question is if you breed a dominant form to a normal and you get 50% showing are the others het for that morph or are they just normal?
Is it the same with codom and dom.
Ex: Spider x normal = 50% spider 25% het spider 25% normal
Pastel x normal = 50% pastel 50% het pastel
Ive heard spider is a codom morph but if I am wrong please correct me.
Is this correct or am I way off?

[ladywhipple02]

Spider is dominant. There is no such thing as a het spider.

When you breed doms by normals, the ODDS* are that you will be get 50% morphs and 50% normals.

The normals are normals and will never be anything but normals. They are not het for anything.

*Remember, this is a game of chance, just like flipping a coin. You could just as easily get all normals or all morphs. Pray to the morph gods!

[LadyOhh]

There is also no such thing as a het pastel.

It either is or isn't visual when you are talking about co-dom mutations.

[NateDogg13]

Thats what I thought but wasnt 100% sure. Thanks for clearing that up for me

[NateDogg13]

one other questions. So there are no het codoms but are there het dominants or just het recessives?

[firehop]

Just het recessive....... FYI..I had 5 eggs from a spider x normal and all 5 were normal but the 5 babies are hotttttttt

[LadyOhh]

Just het recessives.

[NateDogg13]

Ok I think my confusion is gone now, thanx for clearing everything up for me

[RandyRemington]

Well let's see if I can't get you confused again, lol.

All pastels and probably all spiders are heterozygous for their respective mutant genes. There are still a lot of ball python keepers who use the terminology from the previous posts but I believe this is more technically correct and in the long run will be less confusing. If you haven’t already learned it the other way you might as well learn this way. I think those who have learned it the other way will eventually need to switch as combinations get more complicated.

You asked about a mutation type (Dom). Here are the definitions of the mutation types.

Recessive, co-dominant, and dominant just tell you what the heterozygous animals look like in relation to the homozygous normal and the homozygous mutant.

Recessive: The hets look normal and only the homozygous mutant are visable morphs. Example - albino, the hets look normal and the only albino looking ones are homosygous for albino.

Co-dominant: Both the hets and the homozygous are visable morphs but look different from each other. Example - pastel, the hets have the pastel apperence and the homozygous have the super pastel apperence.

Dominant: Both the hets and the homzoygous are visable mutants but they look the same. No publicly proven ball python examples yet but there are suspicions that pinstripe and/or spider might be dominant. Will a homozygous proven through breeding results to be sure.

IMHO a better way to predict what something will produce is to break it down to its genotype because the same inheritance rules for genotypes work regardless of the mutation type. As the combinations get more complicated working with genotypes will be much easier to keep straight.

Here are the definitions of the genotypes.

Heterozygous: Having an unmatched pair of whatever gene you are talking about. It just happens to work out with recessive mutations that the hets look normal but if you understand that the pastel phenotype has the heterozygous for pastel genotype than you see why it has a 50% chance of passing the pastel mutant copy of the gene to its offspring and a 50% of passing the normal for pastel version. It has both versions and randomly picks one to pass to each offspring.

Homozygous: Having a matched pair of whatever gene you are talking about. Since both copies of a super pastel's genes at the pastel location have the pastel mutation you can see why it can only give that version - it doesn't have a normal for pastel version to give.

Once you understand genotypes it's easy to figure the offspring of crosses like pewter X killer bee in you head. Start out by breaking each parent down to its genotypes:

pewter = het pastel and het cinnamon
killer bee = homozygous pastel and het spider

Then you can apply the same basic genotype rules to each gene independently:

het X normal for that gene = 50% het and 50% normal
homozygous X normal for that gene = 100% het
het X het = 25% homzoygous, 50% het, 25% normal for that gene
hozygous X het = 50% homozygous and 50% het

So from a pastel perspective this is a het X homozygous breeding so 50% homozygous pastel and 50% heterozygous pastel.

From a cinnamon perspective this is het X normal (for cinnamon) so 50% het cinnamon and 50% normal for cinnamon.

From a spider perspective this is het X normal so 50% het spider and 50% normal for spider.

Since the genes are all independent you can just overlay the results:

12.5% super pastel cinnamon spider
12.5% super pastel cinnamon
12.5% super pastel spider
12.5% super pastel
12.5% pastel cinnamon spider
12.5% pastel cinnamon (aka pewter)
12.5% pastel spider (aka bumble bee)
12.5% pastel

[bearhart]

for the general case of a dominant x normal I believe you have two possible cases:

pure morph x normal = 75% showing, and 25% normal. More specifically, you'd get 25% "pure", 50% het, and 25% normal. But, since its a dominant morph, 75% with show the trait.

het morph x normal = 25% het, 75% normal. For a dominant gene, you would have 25% showing the trait.

Correct?