What came first, the spider or the egg?

[PythonWallace]

Since at least one parent has to be a spider to get a spider, how was the first spider produced? This goes for all co-doms, doms. and hets, since none of these are achieved from selective breeding. I think I need to take it easy on the Dextromethorphan cough syrup

[Purrrfect9]

I know that the first spider was a WC import, which I believe Nerd got around 1999(ish). As for all other co-dom mutations, the majority of them were WC imports as well. The only recessive trait that was ever found 'accidentally' that I know for sure was the albino gene, which Bob Clark produced the first recorded albino in the early 90's.

[Brimstone111888]

I believe they are just mutant versions of a gene. One time when some normals mated the gene on that loci changed into what the spider is. Mutations are random and can sometimes lead to defects or just be a cool pattern change.

[RandyRemington]

At one point Bob Clark had a place on his website that discussed his efforts to import the albino male that kicked off his line.

I think all the mutations so far just happened randomly in the wild and then we stumbled on them while mining through the upwards of a hundred thousands "captive hatched" babies each year.

[PythonWallace]

I understand where the first captive morphs came from, I just wanted to know how these recessive and co-dom genes were first produced in the first snakes in the wild. Kind of like the old chicken or the eggs question.

And Randy, I thought you did a great job on reptileradio when you were on. You expressed your explainations and theories very clearly and in a way I'm sure almost everyone can understand.

[DoGood]

This is a philosophical question, the same as with the chicken or egg question. If you believe in evolution than the egg came first, that is, like said above a mutation occured when two "normals" breed and one of their offspring became what we call a spider. If you believe in creation than the spider came first and God put it there.

~DGD
First Post

[jkobylka]

This is a philosophical question, the same as with the chicken or egg question. If you believe in evolution than the egg came first, that is, like said above a mutation occured when two "normals" breed and one of their offspring became what we call a spider. If you believe in creation than the spider came first and God put it there.

~DGD
First Post

One can disagree with large scale evolution and still believe that mutation is a very real and changing factor in our world.

The egg came first... with a randomly mutated spider ball python inside it. Someone discovered this spider ball - whether it was the first one, or one of its offspring and brought it here.


Justin

[juddb]

This is a philosophical question, the same as with the chicken or egg question. If you believe in evolution than the egg came first, that is, like said above a mutation occured when two "normals" breed and one of their offspring became what we call a spider. If you believe in creation than the spider came first and God put it there.

~DGD
First Post

[Brimstone111888]

I understand where the first captive morphs came from, I just wanted to know how these recessive and co-dom genes were first produced in the first snakes in the wild. Kind of like the old chicken or the eggs question.

I hate to give a anti-climactic answer, but the recessives were random too. A good possibility is that two normals mate and the offspirng gets one mutated albino gene. Then brother and sister mate and bam! your first wild albino. Now this wild albino will probably be killed off very early in its life unless it is careful(Natural Selection).

The albino gene is also a defect affecting the cells that produce melanin. Other than that they are healthy

[kc261]

The egg came first... with a randomly mutated spider ball python inside it.

Unless of course you believe that the kind of egg is determined by what laid it instead of what it has inside it. After all, I think most of us would agree that the eggs we typically eat are chicken eggs, but since we usually eat ones that aren't fertile, that means the name comes from the hen, not the non-existent chick.

So that means the spider came first, hatched out of a normal egg.

Now let's see if I can make your head hurt. If the first spider was a male, then even the second generation of spiders hatched out of normal eggs, cuz the male mated with normal females, who obviously lay normal eggs.