Questionable 100% Het. ?

[RGreen454ss]

Lets say I have a pair of 100% Het Piebald pythons and I know the male is a 100% Het. from Bob Clark. The female was purchased off of Kingsnake and she also came with guaranteed genetics paperwork. Now anyone can guarantee anything to make a sale but doesnt mean anything unless they back it up right. Well my question is how many clutches should I produce before going to Judge Judy? She doesnt have the belly "markers" but we all know that isnt a sure fire way to tell.

[hoo-t]

I would give both breeders a "heads up" after missing on the first clutch. Of course the size of the clutch will be a factor too. If you only get one or two babies from the clutch, you may not want to bother the breeders with it. If after the second clutch, still no visibles, then definitely let the breeders know. Still, be cordial and definitely don't be placing blame. Just let them know that after two clutches, nothing. If after three clutches, still no little piebalds, I'd be fairly certain that at least one parent is not a het. Be sure to explain that you really don't know which snake could be the problem. And thats something that will have to be proven before you can expect compensation. Don't assume that the one you got from "Joe Blow" has to be the problem because the other came from Bob. Joe may be (and probably is) just as honest as Bob, but everyone makes mistakes. The real problem is going to be proving which one isn't a het. I have a het piebald male and a het albino male and I may never breed either one of them for these very reasons. We have since acquired homozygous males. They can certainly prove out our het females.

Good luck!
Steve

[lord jackel]

With Het to Het breedings each egg only has a 25% chance of being Pied...so I would say you need to breed her at least twice before I would get really concerned.


Year 1 no pieds - bad luck
Year 2 no pieds - makes you wonder

Usually after 2 years the breeder (if they are a stand up guy) would get involved as it is their reputation if you start spreading word that their Het's aren't true Hets.

This is just my 2 cents - did you trust this breeder? Did he have good references?

[hoo-t]

Just another thought...

If I was the breeder that sold you one of the two hets, I would probably be willing to take your female on a generous breeder loan after you missed on at least two clutches, and put her with my homozygous male. It wouldn't prove definitively that either snake wasn't a het, might prove your female is, and would give you a clutch of definite 100% hets (and maybe visibles). Thats not to say that Bob or "Joe" would handle it the same way, its just my way of thinking. The end result of the breeding loan may be dependent on which "het" I sold you, and what the results were, and possibly even what the other breeder was willing to do.

Steve

[JoshJP7]

I love pieds, albinos, carmels and all those good hets but this is the one reason I am sketched out by getting into breeding these... You could end up spending good money and wasted time to find out someone made a simple mistake... Easy to say "oh we'll get you the right one" but it just doesnt make up for lost time and potential lost money... I think the advice youve gotten so far is the best for your situation. Best of luck and I pray you get the pieds your aiming for!

[J.Vandegrift]

IMO, to really know for sure in a reasonable amount of time you would need to breed a visual male to her. For het x het breedings even after 3 or 4 seasons of bad results it is still possible that she is a het. How many eggs did she lay?

[rabernet]

I love pieds, albinos, carmels and all those good hets but this is the one reason I am sketched out by getting into breeding these... You could end up spending good money and wasted time to find out someone made a simple mistake... Easy to say "oh we'll get you the right one" but it just doesnt make up for lost time and potential lost money... I think the advice youve gotten so far is the best for your situation. Best of luck and I pray you get the pieds your aiming for!

You work with a reputable breeder, they will make up for it. One reason why my hets came from Adam Wysocki and Justin Kobylka. I have no doubt that if either of them made such a "mistake" that they would do everything in their power to make it right. Shop the breeder as much as the snake.

[JoshJP7]

But you can only make up so much ya know... what do you think they would do to make up for it>? If you missed out on 2yrs of breeding thats alot of potential money gone... with pieds being the price they are i highly doubt any breeders going to toss you 5grand for their mistake.... Sure they can give you a pied baby or something along those lines but to me its not nearly enough to make up for it... Especially if the female wasnt the het pied... If they gave you a female baby youd have to wait 2 more yrs until theyre ready and theres 4yrs wasted... I see where your coming with shopping around for breeders as well as the snake but to me its just too risky to get involved... I'll leave that to all the other breeders If I want a pied, albino, or whatever I'd just cough up the money buy one straight up and get a het to breed it with... That way you know for sure if the het is actually a het rather than playing the guessing game for a couple years trying to figure out "is it this one? or is it that one"

[Kagez28]

it's all about the risk vs reward, breeder with great rep vs no name found on internet.

and also you make it sound like good breeders mix things up and sell non hets all the time. i would like to hear one person that has ever bought any het from any of the big boys (and girls) and it turned out to be just a normal. if there even is some one out there that this happened to.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

That way you know for sure if the het is actually a het rather than playing the guessing game for a couple years trying to figure out "is it this one? or is it that one"

If you buy form a REPUTABLE breeder there is no guessing game!