I'm sure you all see this a lot... fasting ball

[PunkerGirl1107]

Ok so here is my problem. My snake Petey has not eaten since we moved last October. We try to feed him every single week and every week he refuses to eat. Heat, humidity, stress level, area of the house and everything else is the same except the house we live in. My other BP is doing great, extremely aggressive of late but still doing great. We have tried to feed him his normal sized rats at first (dead and alive) gerbals, mice (different colors alive and dead) a hamster and even a day old chick. Nothing has tempted him even in the slightest. He has lost his fat deposits that he had started to get before but is still really active, shedding and has no mites. We have taken him to our regular vet who decided that it would be wise to get him on some fluids (non-iv) and also gave him some kind of oral parasite killer. She said that he doesn;t have any mites and there is nothing that she can see physically wrong with him except not eating. My other bp was even placed in petey's tank for a while to see if it would jar him a little because of the smell and interaction... nothin. We (my fiance and I) have also tried aggrivating him with the mouse till he bites (good luck he wouldn't bite a fly) we even let a mouse nibble on him a little (not enough to break the skin or harm him in any way) just to force him to defend himself... nothin. He just recently shed and looks beautiful... but sheesh... when will this big boy decide to eat??? The last meal he had was a rather large rat (about 6" from snout to rear) and that's been it. Any advice would be helpful as it is starting to unnerve me a little that he's taken it this far.

[kurgan]

That is a long fast - it is nearly a year since he last ate. I'm no expert - I've heard of larger snakes going much longer than that but a year fast for a BP is a big deal so I think you are right to be concerned. I think we need lots more info to really help here:
-How old/large is Petey, how long have you had him and where did he come from
-What is he housed in and how are his temps, hides etc.
-What was his previous feeding regime (size and type of food)

A 6" rat is a large meal but it shouldn't make him fast for a year. Have you had a stool sample analysed by your vet (I realise that with no meal for 11 months that we may have missed the boat here). I think you need some expert advice here, I'm way out of my depth. Please don't let any rodents chew him however gently as the risk is just too great and a stressed BP does not feed well either.

[kurgan]

I'm gonna bump this - their BP hasn't eaten for nearly a year and they need help.

[xdeus]

The majority of Ball Python fasts are usually due to stress or over-eating. It might help us offer advice if you could describe his setup and possibly post a picture of his enclosure along with his previous eating schedule. Was he eating large rats for a while before he stopped eating? Also, you mentioned that you have another Ball. Do they share the same enclosure?

[dr del]

Hi,


Also have you been getting any nutrition into him at all in this time? I know you said it was seen by a vet - did he say it was at the stage of needing intervention? Have you tried assist feeding at all over the period?

But yes the tank setup would probably be a good starting point - everything you can rule out as a problem gets you a little bit closer.


dr del

[frankykeno]

Let's start with basics and lots of information here.

How big is your snake - length, girth and weight?

How long have you had this snake? How long before it started to fast?

What was it's normal feeding routine as far as method of feeding, frequency and size/type of prey?

Did your vet do either a fecal float or a vent wash to rule out internal parasites?

Please either post pictures of this snake's enclosure or a detailed description of it...size, hides, heating method, substrate, etc.

Think back...what happened right around the time this snake started refusing.

Something is up with a snake not eating. It's a symptom of a problem or set of problems, figure those out and the snake is likely to start eating again regularily.

[Stewart_Reptiles]

Heat, humidity, stress level, area of the house and everything else is the same except the house we live in.

Even if it is the case it can overtime affect your BP also to help us narrow it down we will need to have more details.

We have tried to feed him his normal sized rats at first (dead and alive) gerbals, mice (different colors alive and dead) a hamster and even a day old chick.

BP are imprint feeder and you need to stick to it's regular diet
Feeding gerbils (very aggressive with long teeth), hamsters (too furry could cause blockage) or chick (will cause runny smelly stool) is not a solution.

My other bp was even placed in petey's tank for a while to see if it would jar him a little because of the smell and interaction... nothin.

This should be avoided as it will only increase the stress leading to even more refusal.
BP can refuse for various reason most commonly husbandry and overfeeding

The last meal he had was a rather large rat

If you have fed him large rat on a weekly basis this could be one of your problem right there.
Because a BP is capable of eating a large prey does not mean he needs to and if overfed he will fast to catch up.

To have a BP feeding with consistency you want to offer nothing larger than a small rat (4 weeks old 45/65 grams) or 2 to 3 mice a week.

Here are the question so try to be very precise

How old and how big is your BP (weight)?
What type of enclosure do you provide?
How big is your enclosure?
What kind off hides do you provide, do you have 2, are they tight (all side touching is body) and identical?
Do you provide belly heat?
What are your temps (cool and warm side)?
What is your humidity?
What type of thermometer/hygrometer do you use (dial,stick or digital?)
How often do you handle your BP?
Is your enclosure in a low traffic area?

[PunkerGirl1107]

How old and how big is your BP (weight)? Petey is about 2 and a half years old now last time we measured he was 43"
What type of enclosure do you provide? It is a glass tank attached underside heat pad.
How big is your enclosure? HUGE... lets see... 36" long, 18" wide and 17" tall.
What kind off hides do you provide, do you have 2, are they tight (all side touching is body) and identical? He has a hide rock, small herp branches (he hides and climbs in) and a hallowed out log. Different sized hide spots and tons of places t not be seen and blend into.
Do you provide belly heat? That would be the underside attached heat pad.
What are your temps (cool and warm side)? Cool side is about 70-75 and the warm side is 80-85
What is your humidity? Between 30 and 40%
What type of thermometer/hygrometer do you use (dial,stick or digital?) Dial
How often do you handle your BP? Always handled him a lot before he stopped eating. When we moved and we first saw the sign of fasting we stopped handling him all together (to try and de-stress him, he seemed more stressed at trying to push his way out of the tank than normal after about 6 months of not handling him so we started again. Normally it's about 5-10 minutes once or twice a week and he seems happy as a clam.
Is your enclosure in a low traffic area? Extremely low traffic, they have their own room with a door that is closed all the time unless I am in there working on some artwork. Unfortunately not that often.

Some other info...
Before he stopped eating he was eating once a week every sunday. He would have a med. rat and act like he was starving the very next week. He was growing very fast but staying lean, no fat pockets or oversized girth. Very active, very friendly boy.

The alt food sources were reccomended by our vet to get him to eat ANYTHING at all. I had the unpleasant task of knocking the little critters out or snapping their little necks to keep it safe as possible.

No feces has been passed so no fecal analysis has been done.

The vet did not do a vent swab but did treat for intestinal parasites in case he had any.

No he is not housed with any other snake.

We have has him for the last two years and he has only stopped eating the last 11 months.

We have tried to 'force feed" him, to where we opened his mouth and introduced a fresh kill of a small rat (to make it easier for everyone involved) into his mouth and tried to coax him to eat and that went over like a lead ballon. He spit it out with the head half way down his throat and coiled around my arm and burried his head in my shirt.

Any other questions I will be happy to answer to the best of my ability to assure that I get to know what's going on with our little man. In all honesty he acts like he is afraid of the prey. Doesn't want anything to do with it and will high tail it in the opposite direction once he catches a close whif of it... I have NO idea what is going through his thick stubborn head.

[frankykeno]

What are your temps (cool and warm side)? Cool side is about 70-75 and the warm side is 80-85
What is your humidity? Between 30 and 40%
What type of thermometer/hygrometer do you use (dial,stick or digital?) Dial

Here's part of the issues. His temps are too cool, his humidity is too low and the dial stick on deals tend to be way off. Bump his temps up to 80-82 degrees cool side, 90-92 degrees warm side, 24/7 (no night drop). You can grab an Acu-Rite at WalMart (or something similar though a different brand name at Home Depot or Lowe's - requires one AAA battery). These digitals will give you a better handle on the actual temps and humidity. The dial gauges can be quite a bit off. An Acu-Rite is usually around $10.00.



The humidity should be about 50-60%, bumped slightly during a shed cycle if he needs it. This can be achieved by moving his water bowl closer to the warm side, or changing it to a water bowl with more surface area, covering part of the mesh lid on his tank to help keep in heat and humidity (things like Saran wrap, a piece of plexiglass, etc. work...just leave room for proper air exchange of course).

Once you have his enclosure stable and in the correct ranges for a ball python I would leave him be for a week with no handling or attempts to feed. At the end of that week, introduce a live rat fuzzie/very small pup, cover the enclosure with a dark sheet and leave them alone. This size rat cannot hurt your snake so it's safe to leave in overnight. Don't peek, don't go back in the room, just leave them together until morning.

Once the snake is eating that size prey for a few weeks you could slowly bump him back up to an appropriate size rat. That would be a small rat, not a medium. A medium rat is a large prey for any ball python, especially a male ball python eating one every week so that's likely part of why he started fasting in the first place.

[MelissaFlipski]

Wow! Some great advice.

The only thing I would add is how much weight has your BP lost as a percentage of total body weight? My husband read on another website, not sure of source, that a weight loss of 15% or more is when it starts to get serious. If he hasn't lost much, maybe it will at least ease your mind... ?

Good luck and keep us posted!