Grown.

[joannarea]

I just measure Chocolate, my BP and when I got him last Jan., he was 16". He is exactly 36" now. We have gone through some learning experiences, and with your help on the forum. I feel he is a happy BP. I had a lot of trouble with temp and humidity, but right now they are good. I kind of worry about winter coming and keeping things par, but that's in the future, however, I'd take any suggestions to counter the climate changes in Florida and the tank. Humidity the biggy, I am thinking of getting a fogger, humidity was awful to maintain last year. He is just getting to pretty fair sheds now. But...his poor ones causes the lines, marbling or whatever the freference to the lines on his eyes. The left one is the worse, and doesn't seem to clear up. I soak him, wet his head, the humidity is 60 to 75%, and per the vet I use mineral oil on them, but they stay the same. Is this harmful to him, to his vision.

Feeding question. I have been reading on my corn snake, and a snake in this state, it eats mice, rats, baby birds and lizards. I have oodles of the Anoles around my house. I caught one, washed it...I know but I wanted it clean....then put it in with Nutter-butter, he was surprised by it, but soon nabed it and chowed down. He just ate a pinky, so he seems not to have a problems switching. My concern is should I feed him them? I think the contamination risk is too high. Agree? I probably answered my own question, but curious for input.

Otherwise we are all doing better. Sara my dog, with the urinary infection that turned out to be bladder stones and an emergency surgery. Almost lost her, but she has her last pill tonight, and check up on Friday. find out then what the base cause was to the stones, and I want an x-ray to be sure she is clear now.

Hope all is fine with everyone and looking forward to responses. Joannarea

[python.princess]

glad everyone is doing good! i don't know about feeding him anoles... i wouldn't feed mine wild mice but i don't know bout lizards...

[SatanicIntention]

What is the Ball Python housed in and what are you using to heat the enclosure? How are you measuring the heat and humidity? Him having bad sheds, dented eyes, etc. is a result of low humidity and dehydration.

As for feeding wild lizards to your corn snake, please don't. Since both are reptiles, one can easily pass parasites to the other, and result in a very unhealthy snake. While the anole may "look" healthy, it has a very different immune system than your corn snake, and your snake can get VERY sick just being exposed to that lizard. Stick with domestic mice, there's no need to feed wild caught animals, or even a varied diet. They don't need it.

And dogs get uroliths for a few different reasons, mainly diet-related. If she's not eating a high quality food, that's probably why. She'll likely be put on a strict prescription diet to change the pH of her urine so the crystals get dissolved and don't form into stones.

[dr del]

Hi,


I don't know for sure but I would suspect there would be a far greater risk of passing on parasites and other nasties from a wild reptile than a wild mouse.

If the corn happily eats his pinks then I would probably follow your instincts and avoid the wild stuff.

About the ball python - do you mean he has retained eyecaps on his eyes?

I am never sure about putting oil on the snake myself and have rea that it can cuase individual scales to shed layers making a complete mess in the tank. I've always found that patience and water work perfectly fine. Have you tried the wet pillowcase idea as they constantly rub their heads against that and it can gently remove some really quite stubborn shed remnants.

And I hope your dog is ok and it's not going to be a recurring problem.


dr del

[joannarea]

Python.Princess thanks for the reply, with yours plus the others, as well as my self-doubts, ...I am staying away from wild prey. I don't want to hurt my animals, and don't need added problems of my own doing.

SatanicIntention, I used bark, then went to the aspen, I wanted something more burrowing, but at the same time Chocolate started wheezing, and we went to the vet with a RI. I don't know if the aspen contributed, maybe irritation, but I didn't risk it and went back to the bark. Still not happy with it, I have newspaper at this time. Suggestions?? I use the digital, humidity/temp gage everyone suggested, accu-rite. I had a lot of trouble when they were in the AC, so I moved them into a non-ac room. The thermostate is under the hide and maintains about 83 to 85 degrees, and humidity is 55% and fluxes up alittle according to the days weather. A sunny room, but they are not in the sunlight directly, have moom light at night. I use a bulb heat. When on it heats the hide area about 10 degrees, and the BP always flees to the other side of the aquairum. I thought about putting the heat source over the water end, but afraid he won't go drink. I see him drink often, so he does that good, often. He won't soak on his own. A little lost on what to do about this. I soak him weekly for an hour. His sheds were awful!! Now he gets most off on his own except some on his back in spots. I am hoping he will get back to full piece sheds. Open to suggestions. I got him a large 30 gallon tank, 29" long and about as tall, he really crawls around at night. Eats good, quick to grab, kill and eat. Things seem to be good, but I am always looking to make better.

The corn, it won't even put up with a heat source, put it on and he goes where it isn't and thats usually under the papers, behind his water bowl, anywhere else. I gave it a large stick with platic leaves, and got spanish moss, cleaned and nuked it to kill bugs, and draped it over the stick, he stays there the most, but put a light on it and he goes under the papers!! He has a 29 gallon tank, as big but not as tall as the BP's tank.

I get frustrated with the under the paper thing, I want a comfy home for them. I put a bigger water bowl on both pens, the corn soaks and his sheds are one piece and smooth, so far. Just Chocolates is poor, and I try hardest to get his habitate right for him, then I have to for Butter-nutter.

Lizzards are out. I have been thinking of feeding the corn pinkies twice a week, he'd eat it, he doesn't seem as round as pictures reflect he should be. I have treated both for parasites. I don't think his girth is good, for 36". I haven't a good way to weigh them.

I am thinking to put the heat light in the middle, to keep an option open. BP does bask in it sometimes for a very short time, then hides for days. How about leaving it on at night? I felt they needed the night atmosphere and the light shouldn't be on, but is too hot daytime. Wow, now I have myself concerned!!

dr del, no more wild food. Just the pinkies and small rats. I thought about the retained eye caps when the lines, dents, creases started. So when I took him to the vet I had her look at the eyes, and she said it isn't caps. She suggested the oil. The one eye has improved, the other hasn't. He tracks his food, I figure with sight too, and flinches if I startled him about his head. But he doesn't react at all to the oil, or his eyes touched. Should he flinch? Maybe the vet again? I soak him weekly, but the pillow case idea sounds like a winning idea to get him to rub his head and if soaked first, if these are caps then possibly he will rub them off. To think of how long they could have been on if they are, I feel like a bad Mommie.

Too all, any input welcome on anything!!

Sara is better. And the vet said diet, infection and hereitdity, ...any one or all three could cause the stones. She is on a special diet now. It is to do what you said SatanicIntention, so I figured she'd snub it. She loves it, but hard food she nibbles,(her breed looses teeth as soon as they come in, she has a couple back one, little ones in front and the rest are gone) I worried she'd not eat enough since her soft food it now gone. Soooo, I ground the dry and added water, warmed it and....she loves it!! She is peeved at me, she stares at me for her Sara-bite of anything I eat. She always had to wait until I finished and she'd get the last bite if she is good. She never got pork, or foods bad for her, usually chicken, or the breads of things like pizza that had more of a smell then anything else on it. Even a regular dog treat rubbed in the smell of people food goodies...or a regular dog treat she likes. The results on the stones is Friday, so I will know all restrictions after that vet visit. Thanks for the good wishes and concerns.

Joannarea

[dr del]

Hi,


Well first off I would say a vet outranks me by a country mile in animal care so I would take their advice.

While soaking is good for correcting dehydration it can actually cause bad sheds from what I've read by leaching fluid from between the layers during the blue phase ( I think thats what it said - perhaps someone with a better memory can jump in here?).

You could try making a humid hide or possibly changing over to tubs as they have a stellar reputation for holding humidity and temperatures.

Is it possible to get a nice clear close up photograph of the afected eye? I'm just curious to see what it looks like really.


dr del

[joannarea]

dr del,

I will try to get a picture. It really concerns me. Worried he could go blind. Is that a possibility? Or like having a cataract? (spelling )

What is a humid hide. Ugh, things change so, I can't remember where I got the soak info, think in just general info. No info on how often is too often or when not to. So don't during shed whiles in blue eyes? I usually soak right after because I was told that after the blue stage, they shed within 4 days. True?? And okay then?

I wanted to try the tub, bought one that snaps on and even had latches on the ends. It took him about an hour to wedge between the tub edge and lid lip and to actually pop the thing open. Smart snake!! So what kind to use, and I have very little heat in winter here, it doesn't get more then freezing and one maybe 2 nights and gone, leaving only a heavy frost. But it chills the apartment, a space heater makes it nice, but never the degrees he needs, so I used the lamp/bulb and a heating pad and he seemed okay. A tub work with those? Not get the plastic too hot, burn him like a heat rock? Like a good set up before it gets cold if you can direct me and/or refere material on it.

I tried to look closer at his eyes, I don't know what I am looking for for one thing, and my bi-focals are failing me on very tiny things. Time for a 2 year exam! So I will try for a photo, my son has a camera that works with the computer, he can help me out.

Like with all info, try and see, no harm-no foul, and sometimes it works. Same with vet directions, ask one get one answer, ask another and hear something else.

Though I have a good vet, she makes mistakes. Like on Sara, on the physical exam when she said it was a UTI, she went by the urine test and finding no crystals..determined no stones, but as full as her bladder was..vet should have felt them. So all printed materal says about the physical exam of a bladder with them. My biggest concern now is that with treatment, they can return...every 5 years okay, but if a very reoccuring problem,,,may have to make a painful choice.

Anyhow, thanks for the quick info. Joannarea

[bearhart]

SatanicIntention, I used bark, then went to the aspen, I wanted something more burrowing, but at the same time Chocolate started wheezing, and we went to the vet with a RI. I don't know if the aspen contributed, maybe irritation, but I didn't risk it and went back to the bark. Still not happy with it, I have newspaper at this time. Suggestions?? I use the digital, humidity/temp gage everyone suggested, accu-rite. I had a lot of trouble when they were in the AC, so I moved them into a non-ac room. The thermostate is under the hide and maintains about 83 to 85 degrees, and humidity is 55% and fluxes up alittle according to the days weather. A sunny room, but they are not in the sunlight directly, have moom light at night. I use a bulb heat. When on it heats the hide area about 10 degrees, and the BP always flees to the other side of the aquairum. I thought about putting the heat source over the water end, but afraid he won't go drink. I see him drink often, so he does that good, often.

The corn, it won't even put up with a heat source, put it on and he goes where it isn't and thats usually under the papers, behind his water bowl, anywhere else. I gave it a large stick with platic leaves, and got spanish moss, cleaned and nuked it to kill bugs, and draped it over the stick, he stays there the most, but put a light on it and he goes under the papers!! He has a 29 gallon tank, as big but not as tall as the BP's tank.

Joannarea

My BP got a mild RI and the best I can tell is that it was from cold spots in the cage. I always recommend that people measure several spots around the cage. You might be surprised. My BP's tank has two UTH's and an overhead red heat lamp. Everything stays on 24/7 and any amount of outdoor light coming in is small. If your snake got RI I would strongly recommend making sure everything is warm enough. I have a big UTH on the warm side, a small UTH on the cool side, and the low-wattage IR lamp is also over the cool side. I have them all connected to the same rheostat and I get good stable temps.

When he got the RI, the pet store guy recommended switching to this recycled paper stuff to minimize irritation from dust. I used to use sphagnum/fir but I haven't switched back since. The recycled paper is nice for my BP because it kind of mats down and is very absorbent. However, I've noticed that even with high humidities his sheds haven't been as good. I guess its because the more natural substrate was rougher and, therefore, better at helping him get the shed off.

I have a very young corn snake and he is like yours. The care sheets recommend pretty high temps for corns but I swear he doesn't like heat at all. He seems to prefer something only slightly above room temp.

[dr del]

Hi,


Well If the vet is recomending topical treatments it probably isn't something internal like cataracts I think. Even if he did lose the sight in one eye it isn't as disasterous for a snake as it would be for us as they have such incredible scent and heat sensing abilities.

I wouldn't soak at all unless it was after a bad shed or the snake was dehydrated but there may be other opinions on that.

A humid hide is simply a box with something inside it to keep a high humidity, examples could be a tupperware box with a hole cut in it and either peat or sphagnum moss in the bottom. I think they sell the moss in a lot of pet stores now and it would be less messy than peat. You do have to clean it out and replace the substrate fairly often to make sure it doesn't become a breeding ground for nasties or anything.

They are quite good escape artists aren't they?

Most people using tubs use either metal binder clips or those luggage bungee cords to hold the lids firmly in place as no matter how good the clips at the end the middle usually has too much give in it.

You could try putting a UTH under the cool end of his tank as well as the warm end - you can sometimes even connect them to the same thermostat as the hot end if you put it through a dimmer and adjust it right. Test it before you put the snake in though.

As to what to look for in the eye I'm not really sure - I would look to see if there were surface dents by holding it so that I was looking across the eye rather than into it and possibly try to (very gently) pull back on the skin around the eye to see if I could spot the white fringe of thin skin on the edge of any retained spectacles. You would expect to see the whites of his eyes by the way but the retained eyecap edge would be ragged rather than uniform. I would also recomend a magnifying glass when doing this as it makes life sooo much easier.

But if you are even slightly nervous about doing this wrong and possibly hurting the snake then the best advice I can give would be to leave it to the vet.

Retained eyecaps can look slightly different on occasion ranging from almost looking like a cloudy layer to looking like the snake has a starbust pattern in his eye caused by them drying out and wrinkling. There are also things like dents in the eyecap that can happen - one of my girls has a doozy at the moment in fact ( click here to see it).

I think thats covered most of the questions in your post but sing out if I missed one.


dr del

[joannarea]

dr del,

I look at Chocolates eyes as you discribed, I see no signs of caps. I had a recheck due on Sara, so I took Chocolate along. The vet seems to think his eyes are fine, and she sees no caps. So I will no worry. I tried to get pictures to post, but every close up, even with the zoom was blurred too much.

That was some dent on your BP while in blue, I will see what my BPs is like when he next sheds, and maybe it will be easier to get a photo.

I am going to concentrate on getting their cages ready for winter. The corn is in shed right now.

Sara is doing better, she checked out on no stones and he PH is good now, but still has an infection. The stones turnned out to be ones that are brought on by infections. Yet this was the first one she ever had, that she showed any signs of having and then only when it was too serious. But UT test are now a regular thng for her, about every 2 months for life. For now she can only have the special food, once the UTI is gone, we'll talk treats and other foods. She is having some bladder control issues, and it's a combination of the infection, soreness from surgery and the food causing her to drink more. Atleast she is on the mend.

Thanks for all the advice. Hope you and all your creature family are doing well. Joannarea



Bearhart,

I guess I will get the lights on. Lot of opinions on it, but an available cool/hot side seems the best course, and monitoring better to avoid cold spots this winter. I am going to look into the multiple thermostates. There are paper shredders at garage sales all the time, I think I will stay with the paper but shred it and let them matt it down. Or is it a bad with feeding?? I have tree bark type hides, and large water bowls, both snakes use those to rub at shed times. I use blue bulbs, usually, or have been at night, and the corns is a 25watt, BPs is 60, over the hide. shows 85- 90, depending on day temp through night on the thermostate. Why do you use red?? Thanks for the info. Joanarea