I think my snake has IBD! Please someone help!

[tobiasking]

Hi everyone,

I got my male BP out today just to check he was ok and he started twisting and rolling around, even worse once I put him down! He also had his head up in the air "star-gazing".

I am extremely worried about him and my first BP (which I have had for 2-3 months now and is perfectly healthy - I hope!), they have been in contact since I got him but only once recently (about 1 week ago or so). He has been sitting around doing nothing for 2-3 days now and I assumed he was finishing his force fed rat put.

Please someone help, I don't know whether to have him looked at or if its too late! and does this mean my female is going to have it as well? I am extremely worried cos I love these lil guys to death


All help deeply appreciated!!


TEK

[Purrrfect9]

If you think that your BP has IBD, it needs to go to the vet NOW to make sure that he has it. This can easily pass over to all of your other snakes, and it usually kills them in a matter of weeks. There is no cure for IBD, which is why it is so important to quarantine these snakes for at least 60 days, and have at least one or two vet visits during those 60 days to make sure the snake is 100% healthy. If those snakes are not in seperate rooms, (or better yet, seperate buildings with different air supply) seperate them NOW. and to be safe, I would take your other snake to the vet for a check up as well, but at a different day/ session than the snake with the possible IBD to be on the safe side.

[snakedude56]

Have you had your male for as long as you have had your female or did you just get the male after having the female for those 2-3 months? First thing is to calm down and not panic. IBD is very rare and your snake may have been rolling around to try and get away from you if you spooked it.

[Kara]

Why is he being force-fed?

[tobiasking]

I have had the male for under a month, it was fine when I got it. I have already moved the male to another room but they have been in the same room for the entire time I've had him and I have held them together many times when I first got him.

I will definitely be taking them both to the vet on separate days! Does anyone have any experience with IBD?

Anyone elses help is very much appreciated!!



TEK

[SPJ]

Why is he being force-fed?

Ditto.

Forcefeeding can kill a snake if not done properly and it should only be done as a last resort. It doesn't sound like you have enough experience to even attempt to do this.

Try putting the snake completely on it's back. If it cannot right itself, that is one sign.

Get that and the other one to the vet ASAP and read up on BP husbandry.

[Purrrfect9]

I found this article about IBD and it's symptoms on the net. It's from reptiles magazine, but it was the best article that I could find that had pretty good symptoms, and suggestions.

"IBD is a serious, fatal viral infection of boid snakes, first identified in the mid-1970s. It is thought to be a retrovirus. The disease has been seen in large collections in Europe, Africa, the United States and more recently, in Australia. Several cases of IBD have recently been diagnosed in Italy and the Canary Islands. Because the transport of captive snakes in the pet trade and between different zoological institutions frequently occurs, and snakes can harbor and shed the virus before manifesting overt clinical signs, we can expect this virus to spread worldwide eventually. The incidence of IBD in wild snakes is unknown at this time. Herpetologists have many names for this disease, such as twisty, stargazing disease and boid encephalitis."



"In boa constrictors, the first signs may include off and on regurgitation, and some develop head tremors. Dysecdysis (abnormal shedding) may occur. Some develop chronic regurgitation and anorexia (they stop eating). Not all infected snakes regurgitate, however. Boas lose weight and may develop clogged nares (nostrils), stomatitis or pneumonia. The disease can rapidly progress to nervous system signs, such as disorientation, corkscrewing of the head and neck, holding the head in abnormal and unnatural positions, rolling onto the back or stargazing."



"Clinical signs are quite variable. Regurgitation and signs of central nervous system disease are commonly seen in boa constrictors. Stomatitis, pneumonia, undifferentiated cutaneous sarcomas, leukemia and lymphoproliferative disorders have all been seen. Burmese pythons generally show signs of central nervous system disease without showing the respiratory signs. Regurgitation is not usually seen in Burmese pythons."



"Pythons with IBD often develop neurological signs earlier than boas, and these signs are often more pronounced and obvious. Pythons don’t regurgitate as often as boas will. Pythons often show a progressive loss of motor function, usually in the back half of the snake, which may lead to bloating and constipation. Both boas and pythons may hold their tongues out longer when flicking. Chronic pneumonia in boids that is not responsive to antibiotic therapy and nebulization therapy may actually be IBD. Some snakes with IBD are chronically shedding the virus and are capable of spreading it throughout a collection, before clinical signs of the sick snake are realized."



"The snake mite (Ophionyssus natricis) is suspected to be a vector, passing the virus from one snake to another. Often, with an outbreak of IBD, the snakes also have concurrent mite problems. Other possible ways that the virus can be transmitted include direct contact between infected and noninfected snakes, contaminated bedding, venereal transmission and intrauterine transmission to developing embryos in viviparous species and to eggs in oviparous species, although the direct route of transmission has not yet been identified."



"There is still much to be learned about this terrible disease. Blood tests may show signs of viral infection initially, but often the snake will develop secondary bacterial infections due to the immunosuppressive capabilities of this virus. Sometimes the classic inclusion bodies produced by this virus are found in the snakes’ red or white blood cells. A presumptive diagnosis can be made by biopsying esophageal tonsillar crypts, or biopsy of the liver, pancreas, kidney or stomach, in addition to running a complete blood count and plasma chemistry panel. The history and physical examination are also helpful in trying to make a diagnosis. The classic inclusion bodies can be seen in the cytoplasm of certain cells; however, the absence of inclusion bodies does not rule out this disease. The characteristic inclusion bodies found in the cytoplasm are seen in epidermal cells, oral mucosal epithelial cells, visceral epithelial cells and neurons."



"All boid snakes should be considered susceptible. While this disease has not been identified in snakes other than boas and pythons, it is not known at this time whether other types of snakes can harbor or transmit this virus. Also, the primary host of IBD has not been identified."


"Affected snakes either die acutely or starve slowly after several years of anorexia. It is possible to keep a snake alive by force-feeding, but one should not expect a snake to recover from IBD. Infected snakes are chronic carriers and are capable of spreading this disease to other snakes, so euthanasia is recommended if a firm diagnosis is made. Many other diseases can present with the same or similar clinical signs, so euthanasia should not be performed solely based on clinical signs."



"Infected snakes should be euthanized. All new snakes should be quarantined for a minimum of 90 days prior to introduction to an established collection. Recommendations for boas is a 6-month quarantine period. Mite control and elimination is essential. Fiberglass cages that housed infected snakes should be thoroughly disinfected with bleach and then left out in the sun to dry prior to housing another snake. Wooden cages, unless sealed with urethane or some other impervious sealant, should be discarded. The same holds true for wooden hide boxes and cage decorations. "



"For a single pet that the owners would like to keep alive, force-feedings are necessary. Support care is vital. Controlling any secondary infections (bacterial, fungal or protozoal) is important. One nutritional supplement that I highly recommend for any exotic with nervous system signs is called DMG, Dimethylglycine (Vetri-DMG Liquid, available through Vetri-Science Laboratories of Vermont, A Division of FoodScience Corporation, Essex Junction, VT, USA 05453, www.vetriscience.com). This product is very good for the immune system and really seems to be beneficial in controlling some central nervous system (CNS) signs in pets. An infected snake should be strictly quarantined away from all other snakes and reptiles, just to be on the safe side. Fastidious sanitation is mandatory."



"If your snake hasn’t been injured, i.e. the cage top fell on it or it sustained some other trauma, then IBD is a consideration. Other conditions can cause the clinical signs that you are describing. Your vet will want to take radiographs (X-rays) to evaluate the spine and internal organs, and will draw blood for a blood count and chemistries. Biopsies may be necessary. There is a chance that your snake might have a problem involving the spinal column, spinal cord or vertebrae. Infections, tumors and other lesions involving the spine can cause flaccid muscle tone in your snake. I hope your vet will be able to help you with your snake. If your veterinarian is not familiar with IBD, you can always suggest that he or she set up a consult with the lab they use to speak with a consultant with more reptile experience. This is usually offered free of charge to the vets using the lab."
-Margaret A. Wissman, DVM, DABVP has been an avian/exotic/herp animal veterinarian since 1981. She is a regular contributor to REPTILES magazine.

[lord jackel]

Why is he being force-fed?

I am wondering the same thing.

Besides the force feed issue there is also the issue of no quarantine practice.

My recommendation is regardless of what happens take them both to the vet. You have already exposed your girl to whatever the male may have or had. The sooner the better to make sure they are both healthy.

[snakedude56]

IBD usually kills within a few weeks so if you've had them both for over a month then you are probably safe from it. BUT you should still take them to the vet.

[dr del]

Hi,

I agree taking both of them to the vets is a very good idea - try and keep any stools in a ziplock bag in the fridge to take with you (make a note on the bag which snake it came from and remember fridge not freezer).

There are a few possible causes of stargazing, so it doesn't have to be ibd, but the quicker you can get them to a vet to start diagnosis the better as they aren't exactly symptoms you should be ignoring.


dr del