Tips for feeding

[Will]

Hi i've had my bp now 2 weeks and some of you now about the stress it's been through from my previous thread. I tired feeding him last weekend on a fuzzy but failed which i guess can only be expected and then i tired again last night with pinkies and no luck any tips?In my local pet store where I used to work there is a man who has a lot of experience with snakes and used to deal with all the reptiles when the shop had them and he recomended an assist feed to get the snake used to frozen thawed food. What do you think?

[frankykeno]

Will isn't this the snake that was just dropped, possibly stepped on that you were upset about? After that kind of experience only days ago it's not really surprising the snake would refuse.

Let's just work the problem, refusal isn't the problem, it's a symptom of other problems affecting this snake's willingness to feed.

First off is husbandry. Please post clear pics or describe the setup your 4 month old BP is in (include information about type and size of enclosure, substrate, hides, heating source, etc.). Please list the temps on both cool and warm side, plus humidity readings. Please describe in detail the method you are using to feed as well as the prey offered. When you say "fuzzy" or "pink" you need to be specific about whether this is a rat or mouse and whether it's being offered live, frozen/thawed or pre-killed.

Next would be known feeding history for this snake. It's 4 months old, you've had it a couple of weeks so who had it before you, what did they feed it and in what manner was it fed?

Next is handling. Obviously this snake has bee "handled" when it was removed from it's tank by your little sister and let loose. What other handling experiences has this snake had in the period since you've owned it. What is the general area of the house the snake's tank/tub is in (bedroom, livingroom, etc.)

Lastly is health. Depending on where this young snake came from you may need to get a vet check done with a fecal float included to check for internal parasites.

It's a lot of information to ask you to post but it's all very relevant stuff. With more information from you we may be able to give you some advice to help with this situation. The important thing is to just take a breath, don't panic and work the issues one by one. You aren't the first with a non-eating BP and most times it can be dealt with, with adjustments to housing, handling, lessening of stress on the snake and changes to the feeding routine (all that assuming the snake is healthy in the first place).

Please do NOT consider a forced or assisted feeding at this point. That sort of thing should only be done, as far as I'm concerned, under the advise and direction of a good herp vet or a VERY experienced breeder.

[Will]

Tank
Hi the tank is 3x2x2 feet long the substrate is wood chips there is a hide on the cool side and one on the war side. The tank is heated by UTH + a heat lamp during the day. Warm side =83-86 Cool side= 72-75 and a basking temp of 90.

Feeding Technique
The first week i tried the same technique that i do with my corns: heat up the frozen fuzzy mouse in warm-hot water the gently lift the snake out of the cage and into a feeding box and leave for 20mins.

Yesterday I did the same but with frozen pink mice and then i but the pinks on a log in the tank.

History of feeding
I got the snake from a pet shop 2 weeks ago they had 2 bp there. He said that one fed and the other didnt so i obviously bought the one that did. He said it was feeding on frozen-thawed fuzzy mice.

Handeling
The snake got handeled when it got lifed out of the tank at the pet store then the next time that can be known for certain is when my dad picked it up off the floor to put it back in its tank on thursday.

General Area of the tank
The tank is in a living room which links into a kitchen. There is fish tank next to it a radio about 3 metres away and a computer 2 meteres away (kids do use the computer).

Health
When i bought the snake the owner said the snake had already been to the vet for a check up when they bought it from the breeder.

[frankykeno]

Excellent Will, I love a detailed response LOL. Okay let's work with this and see where we get. Remember, everything with ball pythons is a very slow process so don't expect overnight results. Any major tweaking means that the snake needs a week or two to adjust to it.

Tank
Hi the tank is 3x2x2 feet long the substrate is wood chips there is a hide on the cool side and one on the war side. The tank is heated by UTH + a heat lamp during the day. Warm side =83-86 Cool side= 72-75 and a basking temp of 90.

General Area of the tank
The tank is in a living room which links into a kitchen. There is fish tank next to it a radio about 3 metres away and a computer 2 meteres away (kids do use the computer).

Bump those temps up a bit. You want to aim for 90-92 warm side, 80-82 cool side 24/7 (no night drop). Make sure the wood chips contain no pine or cedar. You might want to add in a lot of scrunched up newspaper. It's ugly but effective to help your snake feel less exposed in a glass tank. You may want to consider covering both sides and the back of the tank with something on the outside...dark paper, aquarium backing, heck tape on some black garbage bags (make sure the tape is on the outside ONLY). The aim here is to provide the maximum amount of privacy for the snake. I would also consider moving the snake from such a busy, high traffic area to perhaps your bedroom or a large walk-in closet. Snakes live in a world of vibrations and all that movement and noise is likely making it very antsy.

Feeding Technique
The first week i tried the same technique that i do with my corns: heat up the frozen fuzzy mouse in warm-hot water the gently lift the snake out of the cage and into a feeding box and leave for 20mins.

Yesterday I did the same but with frozen pink mice and then i but the pinks on a log in the tank.

History of feeding
I got the snake from a pet shop 2 weeks ago they had 2 bp there. He said that one fed and the other didnt so i obviously bought the one that did. He said it was feeding on frozen-thawed fuzzy mice.

A pinkie mouse is often ignored by ball pythons as it presents such a small meal it's not worth the calories it takes to digest it. Depending on the size of your snake's girth you likely want to be offering a bigger mouse, perhaps a hopper or even small adult. You need to compare largest empty girth of your snake to the largest part of the mice which is their hips/butt area to determine the correct size. You may need to try live prey but since it has a history of f/t and I assume that's your method of feeding choice, let's work with that.

For a great overview of prey sizes check out the RodentPro site...

www.rodentpro.com

First off, stop removing it to a seperate feeding enclosure. While this can work for some owners and snakes, it can put a nervous feeder off eating completely. If you are concerned about ingestion of the wood chips, then lay down a pad of newspaper or papertowel on the substrate a few hours before feeding. Make sure the f/t prey is fully warmed but NOT cooked. The belly and head area must be warm and the belly smushy. Give it a blast with a hot hair dryer immediately before feeding it. Using hemostats, kitchen tongs or long tweezers grasp the f/t mouse between the shoulder blades at the loose fur and dance it along the enclosure. Do not smack it into the snake's face. Move it in a lifelike motion and be patient. If the snake takes too long, go blast the mouse again with the hair dryer. Snakes hunt by sensing heat and motion and you must replicate this to get a successful f/t feeding.

BP's do not naturally eat dead prey so f/t is a learned response. Lots of them quite happily learn it and yours can too with patience and consistency from you.

Make sure you feed in the evening after dark when a nocturnal snake is most likely to want to eat. Make sure the area around the tank is very quiet, no one is running around and you are quiet and calm in your movements while you feed. Once the snake hits, release the prey from your tongs and go away. Do NOT hover over the snake, just leave it be to do what it does naturally.

Once you figure out what triggers this snake to eat, do that same exact thing the next week...same day, same time of evening, same prey, same everything. BP's do not handle change well or quickly.

Handeling
The snake got handeled when it got lifed out of the tank at the pet store then the next time that can be known for certain is when my dad picked it up off the floor to put it back in its tank on thursday.

I wouldn't personally be handling this snake at all until you get at least 3 or 4 weekly feeds into it. You have 20 plus years with this snake to enjoy that, right now your priority has to be getting it eating well and consistenly with a strong feeding response.

Health
When i bought the snake the owner said the snake had already been to the vet for a check up when they bought it from the breeder.

That's nice, hopefully they were telling you the truth. Anytime a pet store says things I double check...."oh it's been to the vet, well I'm looking for a good herp vet, which one did you use?"

The biggest thing right now is I think for you to learn to think like your snake. It's a very young snake, it's been through a breeder, a pet store and now into your home. It's been dropped recently on to the floor. It's in a big glass tank in the middle of a busy household with a noisy toddler running around. It's young enough that in the wild it would be as much a prey item itself as it is a predator. It is most likely completely freaked out. Stressed, scared snakes will NOT eat. The act of constriction and swallowing a single prey item puts a snake into a very vulnerable place. It cannot easily defend itself or flee from perceived threat.

Your job is to manage this by lessening the snake's stress levels, providing it with an experience where there is very little it can perceive as threatening and making it's home the right temps and humidity for it to be in the best possible health and be able to thermoregulate properly. It's depending on you and with some adjustments I'm sure you'll have this snake eating for you.

Remember after making changes to allow the snake one full week of complete privacy with no attempts to feed, handle or do much of any other than water changes and basic cage maintenance.

[frankykeno]

One last thing, when feeding in it's home do not remove it's hides. BP's are ambush predators and often use their hides to hunt from, or to hide behind while they wait for the prey to wander by. When feeding f/t if the snake is lurking from the hide entrance or hiding behind it, just "walk" the dead prey by them much as a live mouse would scurry about.

[Will]

Thank you for your response it is brilliant!
Firstly except for the front of the tank the tank is made of wood so theres maximum privacy there. I have just moved the tank up to my room with my other tanks so theres less noise from him there and also he should get some higher temps from the tanks sourounding him. Just as i am typing this message he has come out of his probably wondering what all the fuss is about since he has been moved again lol. I just saw him drinking so that must be a good sign! I will try feeding him again next saturday and i will pm you for the results. I will post some pics aswell later today. Thanks a lot!

[Will]

since i have just moved his tank upstairs he has been going around and around his tank and going in and out of hides is this normal during the day?

[frankykeno]

Likely he's just a bit stressed Will from the jostling about as you moved his tank. Not that they can't or won't come out for a bit of a look around during the daylight hours, after all they aren't absolute on anything LOL, but I'd expect he's just a tad put out with being moved. It will likely pass quick enough as he settles back into the much quieter environment of your room.

Sounds like you are making some good steps forward with him and that's always wonderful to see.

Try not to disturb him overly with picture taking today and then leave him totally be for the next week so he can settle in and be better prepared for the feeding Saturday evening. Review good f/t feeding practices this week. There's a ton of threads here about that or just ask...we've a number of experienced f/t feeders as members here.

Don't lose heart with this situation. It's not always easy to get a BP eating if they haven't been well started but once they go, they tend to stay nicely to their routine. Pet store purchased babies are often the toughest ones so you've a bit of a challenge there but nothing that can't be dealt with step by step.

[Will]

Hi i snaped a few shots whilst he was active before:
This is his set up( the case was taken off the light whilst mmoving previously today so the bulb wouldnt smash:
Him drinking






Thanks for all your help and encouragement!

[dr del]

Eep!


And why did you put the snake back in before replacing it?

I hope it's back on now. For future reference it won't hurt the snake to stay in the pillowcase or whatever for the extra 15 minutes needed to make the case back up to the safety level.:eek:


dr del