some genetics questions

[Ladydragon]

okay... I've been trying to figure this out, but cant seem to.

I am going to be getting a pair of 100% het pied BP's as a b-day gift from a friend of mine I know that when I breed them together I get the chance of getting a pied, a normal, and two het for pied (basing this on a four egg clutch - I know there could be more or less).

Im also thinking of getting a 100% het albino bp.
what would happen if I bred the het albino to a het pied?
I think I would get all normals, but would half be het for pied and half for albino or?
and what would happen if I breed a pied to an albino? would the offspring be half pied, half albino, or all normals het for both, or would I get the chance of getting an albino pied too?

and would these "rules" apply to most other morphs?

[Mezclado_Reps]

This is where we get into the weird 50% and 66% possible het scenarios.
With 100% het pied to 100% het pied, you will have a theoretical ratio of 1 visual to 1 normal to two hets. so 2 out of 3 normals will be hets, that's 66% possible hets on clutches that have visuals in them.
With 100% het pied to 100% het albino, each baby would look normal, but be 50% double possible het. Theoretically, 1 normal to 1 double het, to 1 het albino to 1 het pied. Only way to get an albino pied is to have both parents either showing or carrying both traits.
both of these are recessive traits, so if you hear any other morphs that are recessive, they follow these rules. I suggest reading up on Punnet squares and the NERD and other websites that have genetics FAQ.

[Ladydragon]

I've been trying to follow punnet squares, been trying to figure out corn snake genetics, but i get lost real quick when it comes to double, triple and so on hets and the outcomes. But thank you for the answer and the suggested reading. I'll keep reading to learn more.

[Freakie_frog]

If you breed a %100 het pied male to a 100% het albino female offspring would be as follows.

25% Normals
25% Het. Albino,
25% Het. Pied,
25% DH Pied Albino

[hoo-t]

This is interesting, because I just sent an e-mail to someone advertising 50% double het pied/albino. His animals are actually 25% probable double hets.

In this example (100% probable het pied x 100% probable het albino), the outcome is the same. Each offspring would be 50% probable het for EACH trait, not both. There are four possible outcomes -

PA (double het)
Pa (het pied)
pA (het albino)
pa (normal)

1 in 4 chance of double het = 25%.

So, 100% het pied x 100% het albino = 25% probable double het.

Steve

edit - too slow. Freakie beat me to it!

With 100% het pied to 100% het albino, each baby would look normal, but be 50% double possible het. Theoretically, 1 normal to 1 double het, to 1 het albino to 1 het pied. Only way to get an albino pied is to have both parents either showing or carrying both traits.
both of these are recessive traits, so if you hear any other morphs that are recessive, they follow these rules. I suggest reading up on Punnet squares and the NERD and other websites that have genetics FAQ.

[Evan Jamison]

okay... I've been trying to figure this out, but cant seem to.
.....what would happen if I bred the het albino to a het pied?
I think I would get all normals, but would half be het for pied and half for albino or?
and what would happen if I breed a pied to an albino? would the offspring be half pied, half albino, or all normals het for both, or would I get the chance of getting an albino pied too?

and would these "rules" apply to most other morphs?

When breeding any het, each individual offspring has a 50% chance on inheriting the recessive gene from each parent. With a pair of het albinos this results in a 25% chance to hatch an albino, and a 75% of not (obviously). All the normal looking offspring would be considered 66% poss hets, meaning they have a 2/3 chance of being carriers.

When breeding hets of two different recessive traits, each parent still has a 50% chance of passing on the recessive gene, so all offspring would be considered 50% het for each trait, and have a 25% of being het for both. The actual breakdown of the pair in question is:

25% - normal
25% - het pied
25% - het albino
25% - double het

Since you don't know what is what, they are all poss. double hets. When two possible double het siblings (from above pairing) are bred together, you have a 1/16 of both parents being double hets, then each egg will have a 1/16 chance of inheriting both sets (all 4) of recessive genes. Breeding for double recessive combos with two het parents is a long road to possibly nothing spectacular. It can also be a fun gamble, with other possiblities down the road (proving out the poss hets for each trait). Just don't bet the farm on it.

Hope that helps.

-Evan

[Ladydragon]

heh.. okay I think Im getting this, but just to make sure:

in order to produce a pied albino (showing the trait):

1) I would need to breed two bps that are BOTH carrying the trait (het) for pied and albino. - or -
2) I could breed a piebald (showing the trait) to an albino (showing the trait) and get at least one that is showing both traits.

beat me with a stick if Im not getting this any faster.

[Evan Jamison]

2) I could breed a piebald (showing the trait) to an albino (showing the trait) and get at least one that is showing both traits.

Nope. A piebald x albino would produce all 100% double hets, which is a much more likely road to a pied albino ball. The traits are inherited independant of each other. Breeding 100% double hets are still a long shot to a double recessive though, as each egg has a 1/16 chance of getting all four genes (one for each trait from each parent). This is the reason you just don't see very many double recessive BPs around, they are VERY difficult to produce compared to other species that have larger clutch sizes.

-Evan

[Ladydragon]

Nope. A piebald x albino would produce all 100% double hets, which is a much more likely road to a pied albino ball. The traits are inherited independant of each other. Breeding 100% double hets are still a long shot to a double recessive though, as each egg has a 1/16 chance of getting all four genes (one for each trait from each parent). This is the reason you just don't see very many double recessive BPs around, they are VERY difficult to produce compared to other species that have larger clutch sizes.

-Evan

aaahhh.. okay... but still its feasible.. just a very long road. thanx for the help..

okay.. now you can comence beating me with a stick.. LOL

[Freakie_frog]

aaahhh.. okay... but still its feasible.. just a very long road. thanx for the help..

okay.. now you can comence beating me with a stick.. LOL

Why beat you if you have the time to do it that way I'd say rock on with it. I mean think or all the pieds and albinos and het you'll end up with when its all done. Good way to get a head start on a lot of projects.