I'm not sure I should tell you guys this

[dr del]

But in the hopes it may in some way help others at some point and out of a sense of honesty here goes;

I've been a little concerned about the snake that laid my eggs ( mentioned as it may be relevant) - while she kept eating happily nothing seemed to be coming out the other end. I assumed I was probably just being paranoid but it was starting to worry me. She had eaten 2 f.g mice, 4 half grown rats and 1 medium rat.

I've been keeping an eye on it and when I looked at her this morning it seemed to have got a lot bigger very fast. Now I live in the capital city of scotland and only know of 2 reptile vets none of which is actually in the city. Since I am unemployed, don't drive and am at the end of the cheque till tuesday this is somewhat of a problem. Taking my snakes on the bus is never fun so I was panicking slightly.

When I palpitated her I could feel several very large lumps and a lot of either fluid or gas. Either way it was distended enough for me to consider trying to do something about it then and there.

So I filled a pals pen plastic tank 3 inches deep with warm water and sat her in it. She loved it - to the extent of hissing at me when I tried to take her out to change the water for fresh hot. But 45 minutes later I decided it wasn't actually doing any good.

So I inspected her vent in case there was any signs of something unusual but it seemed perfectly normal to me. At this point I decided to try something we used to do in the old days before there were reptile vets readily accessable.

With her back end still in the water I began manipulating the lumps I could feel.

At this point I cannot stress strongly enough how carefull and gentle I was I have been doing shiatsu and swedish massage for years and am very good at judging pressure applied and sensing the small twitch when you approach a painfull area.

5 minutes later I was rewarded with a jet of dark snake pee across my shower tray which continued for quite some time and left a lot of the swelling gone.
This seemed to make her realise what the idea was and she begn to acually help instead of hinder.

Now the first large solid appeared and turned out to be the largest urate I've ever seen ( I think - see later) there didn't seem to be any way it was moving so I helped by using the stem of a spoon and some small tongs to break it up and allow it to pass. For those intrested in the proccess wearing a groove in the urate with the spoon stem then clipping at it with the tongs till it breaks up.

Once that was out 3 smaller urates came out virtually unaided (see pics at end of post) and then the largest log I have ever seen a royal python produce.

At this point she was looking decidedly "baggy" in the hind third and I have never been so happy to see a slim looking ball python in my life. Her shape now resembles a thin high tire. I checked her again and there were only small peices detectable within her so I checked one final time for signs of rupture or damage to her vent and put her in a clean bare 2 foot tank with a waterbowl but no hides with my fingers crossed. About 20 minutes after that she passed the remainder by herself normally and began to try and escape.

I cleaned the tank and put her back in with a couple of hides to keep an eye on her ( in fact I'm looking at her as I type) and she's moving around the tank apparently none the worse for wear.

At this point I imagine hordes of you are getting ready to shout at me
Before you do I'd like to say in my own defense;

If it hadn't got so much worse so quickly I would have been happy to wait till tuesday to go to the vets.

I had done this before ( admittedly that was on a 10 foot burmese) so wasn't just making thing's up on the spot.

While she seems fine now I realise this could go one of several ways;

1. She was fine and I have just seriously annoyed her for no reason.
2. She wasn't fine and annoyed is better than dead if I had done nothing.
3. She wasn't fine but might still die from an underlying cause.
4. She might die as a direct result of my actions

If it turns out to be the last one then maybe this thread might stand as a warning to others not to try it.

And if anyone fels like offering me some advice there are a couple of things I would like to ask;

The urates seemed very egg shaped - is it possible they were retained slugs? I kept the 3 that came out intact and then broke them open to see if there was any internal structure. (pics below) It's unfortunate in a way I had to break up the biggest one but it was about another 20% bigger than the biggest one pictured at least I think.

Also I was planning on not feeding her for a couple of weeks to let her system recover and the putting her on a single adult mouse for a month or so to see how she gets on. She's a bit of a greedy eater though and isn't likely to be all that happy at only getting mice. Do you think that's my best course of action?


the 3 urates;



the internal structures;


close up of the biggest one's bits;




dr del

[JLC]

wow...


Well, I'm not gonna "yell" at ya or anything! Sometimes things just don't work out the way we'd always want them to. (Having a proper vet close by and easily reached, for instance.) It seems to me like this may have been one of those rare cases where a bp was truly impacted and needed assistence passing it.

I wish I had the experience and knowledge to know what might have caused such a thing, or to know if those "urates" are anything but.

Sounds to me like you did what you truly believed was best for your snake at the time. I hope she's ok and makes a full recovery from her ordeal!

[Spaniard]

That was a good post, and I give you credit for your honesty and posting it. I don't think what you did was wrong; you did what you had to do given the circumstances and were ready to accept whatever consiquences came of it, good or bad. I think you helped the situation but I would still get him to the vet to be absolutely sure.

Good luck.

[Vomitore]

You tired to help your snake and that's great. Yes money issues suck but some people would rather their snake go into pain or die then deal with an issue. I hope she recovers and hope this never happens to her or you again.

[West Coast Jungle]

Wow that alot of urates. The first BP i ever got had mites, ticks and dehydrated and had a rock hard urate that the vet removed. I was told she was CH (yeah right). Any way soaking reptiles in general once and a while is what my vet recommended to avoid this problem in the future. Good luck with her I think she os feeling much better. A couple of follow up soaks will probably help her re-hydrate and flush out. Good luck with her and heads up on treating yourself.

[adizziedoll]

Ill be as honest as you were del - I had the same exact thing happen to me with one of my snakes, and i did the same exact thing you did.


I had just gotten the snake, and the kid told me he was feeding her large rats and was ready to move her to x-large
Now we all know thats too big and i think she just ate more then she could handle. She got backed up, obstructed, bloated, and I helped her pass it. I fed her small-med rats after that, and she has never had any problems since.

I dont think what you did was wrong - you did what you could do to help her...

I hope she feels better and never has a problem like that again

[dr del]

Thanks folks,


I'm glad you realised I was trying to help her as best I could. She still seems fine to me but it's going to be a couple of weeks before I can start to relax I think. More in fact because untill I see that first dukey she's probably going to get fed up of my face staring at her.

adizziedoll,

How long did you leave her before you tried feeding again and did you use smaller than normal prey items at first? I can't help thinking this would have the same detrimental effect on her digestive system as a regurge. I was wondering how to explain to the vet as I worry the backing up of the urine could have put strain on the renal system as well - though as that was only one day ( judging by the sudden swelling ** crosses fingers**).

On a slightly lighter note 2 of the three hatchlings have now shed so once the third one does it ( hopefully by tomorrow) I will try them with a fuzzy.


dr del

[Spaniard]

I certainly think that offering a smaller prey item would be best and certainly wouldn't do any harm as opposed to a normal size that you would typically offer. I'm not too sure how long I would wait though before offering a meal. You sound very concerned, and if its within your financial means when you get paid maybe a vet visit would give you the closure you need to know that your snake will be fine. Best of luck to you and your girl.

[recycling goddess]

can we see a pic of her?

cause if she has good weight on her... would it harm her any to wait another week or two to offer feed? (to be on the safe side)

[dr del]

Ok here are some pics I just took - shes wriggly as heck and the pics are worse than usual as I needed one hand for her and one for the camera.










This shows what I mean by shes now tall but skinny;


Finally managed to get her to stretch out a bit;


She now weighs in at only 1119g - on 30/10/06 she weighed 1350g. But by then she'd had 2 f.g mice,2 small rats and 1 medium rat since laying the clutch. I'm guessing what I thought was weight gain was merely crap retention .


dr del