Double Hets, Double Homo

[Griggs2121]

I'm trying to learn how to calculate double hets, I've done some searching on here, but math has never been a strong point for me. I understand how to combine say recesive genes on a punnet square. Say Albinos.

http://www.newenglandreptile.com/gen...recessive.html

a = albino gene
N = normal gene

aa = albino snake
aN = het albino
NN = normal bp

I can put that on a four box square and figure it out. I can even figure out a non recessive like a pastel, because I still consider the two genes.

p = Pastel gene
N = Normal gene

pN = Pastel
pp = Super Pastel
NN = Normal bp

I can even put that in a four square and figure it out. What I don't know how to do is mix Albinos and Pastels, with this method I can only work out hets, I don't know when it becomes a double het.

aa = Albino
pN = Pastel

aa x pN = ap, ap, aN, aN

ap = Pastel with 100% het for Albino
aN = 100% het for Albino

This is where I may need the help, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, I think I'm right up until here. http://www.newenglandreptile.com/gen...recessive.html (Section 1 is where I get confused. I don't know where they get the ccGG for Carmel Albino)

At this point I have what I believe is a double het. It is a Pastel looking snake with a het for Albino. (I'm going to consider Pastel as a het for Super Pastel) If this is true I have a snake that is het for Albino as well as Super Pastel.

My question is, how to I put my example and incorporate it to Section 1 of the link I gave.

I believe breeding these double hets, there is a chance of a pastel albino, but I'm not sure how to achieve it.

[ddbjdealer]

This is where I may need the help, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, I think I'm right up until here. http://www.newenglandreptile.com/gen...recessive.html (Section 1 is where I get confused. I don't know where they get the ccGG for Carmel Albino)

Maybe where you're confused is its NOT just a Caramel Albino, its the Caramel Glow which is a double recessive combo of a Caramel Albino x Ghost/Hypo

So......

Breed a Caramel Albino (cc) to a Ghost/Hypo (gg) and get CcGg offspring...

Breed those together and get the caramel glow (ccgg)

Another part of what you may be confused with is that you're trying to make a co-dom/recessive combo... So the square's a little different...

[Griggs2121]

Am I correct that the mix "ap" would be a pastel in appearance and be 100% het for albino. But you are saying its actually aapN

How do you do the squares for this then, and how would it differe from say a albino x pieball

[ddbjdealer]

Am I correct that the mix "ap" would be a pastel in appearance and be 100% het for albino.

No... doubles are notated on different alles.. its either aa, or Na for the albino gene, and the pastel is on a completely different alle.

But you are saying its actually aapN

Yup... thats a visual albino pastel.

How do you do the squares for this then, and how would it differe from say a albino x pieball

It doesn't differ from a piebald x albino... much.. The squares are done the same way for double recessives as for recessive/co-dom crosses.... the only thing is... with a recessive, the outcome when bred to a normal is just hets, when you breed a co-dom to a normal, you can actual get the pN, and when you breed your co-dom to another pN, you can get p* (the super form)

[Griggs2121]

Am I correct that the mix "ap" would be a pastel in appearance and be 100% het for albino.

No... doubles are notated on different alles.. its either aa, or Na for the albino gene, and the pastel is on a completely different alle.

Ok, in the Albino x pastle example, am I still correct that if you bred an Albino with a Pastel you get a Pastel in appearance, and het for Albino? If so, how would you illustrate that with letters?

[tigerlily]

Ok, in the Albino x pastle example, am I still correct that if you bred an Albino with a Pastel you get a Pastel in appearance, and het for Albino? If so, how would you illustrate that with letters?

You would get pastels and normals that are het for albino. PpAa (pastel het for albino) and ppAa (normal het for albino). The problem with the using the letters is that you have to know the behavior for each gene for it to make any sense. I hope that helps, and even more I hope I got it right. lol

albino = ppAA
pastel = Ppaa
super pastel = PPaa


``````` pA `````` pA
--------------------------------
Pa | PpAa(pastel) PpAa (pastel)

pa | ppAa (normal) ppAa (normal)

All are het for albino. I hope the helps a bit.

[frankykeno]

I need more to follow this thread LOL

[Griggs2121]

You would get pastels and normals that are het for albino. PpAa (pastel het for albino) and ppAa (normal het for albino). The problem with the using the letters is that you have to know the behavior for each gene for it to make any sense. I hope that helps, and even more I hope I got it right. lol

albino = ppAA
pastel = Ppaa
super pastel = PPaa


``````` pA `````` pA
--------------------------------
Pa | PpAa(pastel) PpAa (pastel)

pa | ppAa (normal) ppAa (normal)

All are het for albino. I hope the helps a bit.

so how do you do the boxes for this?

[Rapture]

The "boxes" are right there.

[slartibartfast]

so how do you do the boxes for this?

It's a bit funky when you're combining a recessive and a dominant trait.
1. We capitalize the trait which is dominant in appearance.
So, if we are discussing the construction of pastel albinos, we would designate our animals like this:

Normal: AApp (Dominant over albino, recessive to pastel)
Albino: aapp (recessive albino, recessive pastel)
Pastel: AAPa (Dominant over albino, one copy of the dominant pastel gene)
Super pastel: AAPP (Dominant over albino, two copies of the dominant pastel gene)

For the square, you would still draw a 2x2 grid, but the components would each contain one albino and one pastel gene.

Example: Albino x pastel breeding (forgive my crude grid diagram)

____ap _|__ap__
Ap| Aapp| Aapp_
AP| AaPp| AaPp_

Results:
Aapp = het albino
AaPp = pastel het albino

Hope that helps you visualize it better!