Is it possible to change laws?

[lars5277]

I read all the stories here and on other forums about stupid snake keepers. The news always has at least one good loser in it.

Any ways my point is how hard would it be to suggest new laws for keeps snakes, or possibly any pets in general. I will stick to snakes for this post but the possibiliteis are unlimited. Keep in mind as you read this I am not a tree hugger, a vegatarian or a save the whales kind of guy. I do believe if you get an animal you do your best to take care of it. If your best isn't good enough you should let it go to someone more responsible.

Here comes the good stuff.

Purchasing

People should be required before they purchase a snake to watch a 30-60 min video before hand.
This video can be used to teach:
Husbandry skills
Temperments of the spieces being purchased
Housing requirements
Feeding needs

I know this is no small logistical feat by any means. I believe this will probably keep a lot of people from actually getting pets all-together. I don't really think that is a bad thing. I know I would have never purchased an Iguana after learning about them, I would have also spent more money better housing my snake before I bought it.

Problem, buying snakes on-line. I think once people take the class they could also be entered into a national database with a sort of PIN that breeders could check to see if thier prospective clients are eligible to purchase animals. They could also be presented with a certificate to use at any store to prove they are already trained for selective breeds or species.

I think that something like this would benifit communities as a whole. I see less abuse and neglect going on due to ignorance, and better kept pets all over. Maybe I am off my rocker tonight, but I am so sick of hearing about stupid people. We all make mistakes, but I believe most people get pets with all the love in thier heart, and a little training can go a long way.

I would really like to hear what people think about this. My town (I don't live in town) has a "no snake law", I have been thinking of ways to eliminate it. I also thought of holding a class on these same basic concepts in leiu of a video. People could pay a small fee to attend and learn a lot.

Thank you for listening, reading and absorbing.

[xdeus]

Problem, buying snakes on-line. I think once people take the class they could also be entered into a national database with a sort of PIN that breeders could check to see if thier prospective clients are eligible to purchase animals.

I consider myself left of center, but that seems much too extreme for my liking. Sure, it would be great if every reptile owner were educated before purchasing a pet, but how much intrusion do you want the government to have in your life? Would you stop at reptiles, or extend it to dogs, cats, fish, etc. One could extend it even further and claim that potential mothers should be certified before giving birth.

No, sorry... There will always be ignorant people, maltreated animals, and unscrupulous retailers. I think the best route would be for people to actually speak up when they see something wrong whether it be to a new herp owner or a pet shop owner.

[lars5277]

Spend some time at an animal shelter and you would definately consider it for cats and dogs. All I am suggesting is people watch a short video at a pet store before purchasing a pet. Just for the record, people who mistreat thier kids lose them and sometimes have to recieve state sanctioned training and evaluation to get them back. I am not asking big brother to make sure people have cages and such, just to help inform them of what they are getting into. You have to prove you know how to drive before you get a car. We all know that 2000lbs of 75 MPH of screaming metal isn't going to hurt anyone.

[JLC]

No, sorry... There will always be ignorant people, maltreated animals, and unscrupulous retailers. I think the best route would be for people to actually speak up when they see something wrong whether it be to a new herp owner or a pet shop owner.

Hehe....I'm "right of center" but I completely agree with xdeus on this point. There's way too much government intrusion in our lives as it is.

And just who would make all those videos? Who would agree to what kinds of information should be "taught?" Even experienced, caring keepers sometimes disagree quite vocally on particular husbandry methods.

I understand your desire to weed out all the idiots in the worldm but as xdeus so eloquently put it, that just isn't going to happen. The very best we can do is educate the people we come in contact with ourselves, and report cases of severe abuse when we see it.

Maybe someday society will be more accepting and understanding of the herp hobbies and businesses...but until then, drawing attention to it with more and more restrictive laws isn't the way to help, I believe.

[lars5277]

One of my favorite pet stores takes the time to train me and make sure I have all I need for for any herps that I buy from him. I have seen him turn customers away he felt weren't worthy of a pet. He might lose a few bucks that way, but he gets a lot of repeat traffic.

[Jeanne]

In a perfect world your idea would be good..however, it would cost to maintain a data base such as what you propose in your idea, who would absorb the cost, the responsibility for maintaining and such? Also, it would not neccessarily make sure the animals themselves are kept better, anyone can watch a video and still keep the animal in a wrong/harmful/stupid manner. Also, getting such permits/certificates would most likely also have a cost of its own. Paperwork can still be lost in the mail, etc... or stuck on some over worked persons desk..slowing the process down. Furthermore, most pet shops would not take the time to "check" the validity of ones permit/certificate, and in this day and age it is rather easy to forge things such as this. And how many breeders are going to want to take the time to do those things also? Probably not many. In reality, how many ppl are going to pay for a class to get a permit? This kind of regulating who can and who cannot purchase certain reptiles may create a "black market" of sorts for even the most common of animals due to ppl not wanting to pay for a class/permit/certificate.

As far as changing laws already in place, I would think it would be a matter of starting a petition to get a law struck down, but getting enough ppl in one community to back that may be aweful hard. Lets face it, there are more ppl out there who are ignorant of reptiles and it is those that have helped to get such laws put into place. Unless you have alot of money and a way to get plenty of lobbyist together to help fight these laws, I just dont know that there is much we can do once the laws are in place.

I can understand your frustration, as I feel it too, but it is our job, as responsible herp keepers to help educated where we can, and lead by example. There are always going to be ppl out there who will not take care of the herps/reptiles they purchase the right way, no matter what we do.

[jotay]

My God they don't require anything for you to have children and be a parent so you know it would never happen for any type of animal ownership especailly snakes. (not that it should)
I am waay left of center so you can guess my take on it

[Jeanne]

Spend some time at an animal shelter and you would definately consider it for cats and dogs. All I am suggesting is people watch a short video at a pet store before purchasing a pet. Just for the record, people who mistreat thier kids lose them and sometimes have to recieve state sanctioned training and evaluation to get them back. I am not asking big brother to make sure people have cages and such, just to help inform them of what they are getting into. You have to prove you know how to drive before you get a car. We all know that 2000lbs of 75 MPH of screaming metal isn't going to hurt anyone.

One of my favorite pet stores takes the time to train me and make sure I have all I need for for any herps that I buy from him. I have seen him turn customers away he felt weren't worthy of a pet. He might lose a few bucks that way, but he gets a lot of repeat traffic.

I have worked in many shelters, in fact, I have run a few in my time already. I understand what you are saying, but it is just a fact of life. One that you, like me, will have to get use to, like it or not. It certainly sounds as if you have a great pet shop in your area, however, I have worked in a few pet shops also, let me tell you this, the good ones are far and few between..most do not care what treatment the animals will get once they leave the store, all they care about really is the sale. To them, the means justifies the end.
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[lars5277]

I am just thinking about retiring and living here in a few years and I want to raise snakes. Just seems like I would have to break the law to do that. I am also opposed to the actions of 1-2 stupid people causing laws that affect millions of normal people.

[Jeanne]

I am just thinking about retiring and living here in a few years and I want to raise snakes. Just seems like I would have to break the law to do that. I am also opposed to the actions of 1-2 stupid people causing laws that affect millions of normal people.

The thing is..it is not 1-2 stupid ppl. It is many. The best thing you can do, is pay attention to the proposed laws carefully and begin to fight them, before they are put into effect. But as I said, you would have to have lots of money laying around to do this.