There have been a lot of threads on over feeding lately....

[SnakeySnakeSnake]

Do we actually have scientific proof that feeding 2 times a week is bad for the snake and will reduce its life? (not forcing them, but just offering)

Do the major breeders who's main goal is to come out with the newest morphs combos as fast as possible stick to the once a week rule, and 500grams per foot rule?

It seems that the major reason I see in posts , for over feeding, is to get a female up to size/weight quicker so she can breed. Do any breeders have input on the health implications of this?

Assuming there are no long term scientific studies, does anyone have any experience on early-snake death in the < 10 year range?


What are the ethics for or against feeding your snake as often as it will eat in order to make it adult sized as quickly as possible? If the snake is happy, continues eating, is provided for, then does it become un-ethical just because the snake might live 20 years instead of 30 years? What are the odds of people breeding a snake to produce eggs keeping a snake that long, especially if it stops being productive?

I guess my main confusion is between treating/taking care of the snake as a responsible owner, and that of pursuing morphs as fast as possible without being cruel to the snake.

I mean... if it wasnt very bad for the snake, and they took offered food twice a week, what breeder wouldnt do that in order to have a quicker turnaround?

I have no opinion on this, because i am extremely un-informed... I see a lot of opinions on the board, but no real proof, or no evidence from breeders who may or may not feed their animals in a way to make them productive faster...



PS I have one male Ball python that gets food offered every 7 days. He is a little small but Im not worried. The general consensus is that 7 days is the best way to do it, so thats what I am sticking with until i find a convincing argument otherwise..

[frankykeno]

As far as I've been told it's not particularily smart to power feed any snake (though quite a few will just fast when you try it so bit stupid to do it IMHO).


I'll wait to see what the experienced breeders have to say on the scientific evidence you seek.

To the issue of powerfeeding so that you artificially force early maturity on an animal specifically in order to breed earlier and if it causes your snake to have an unnaturally shortened life....may I just say two words...puppy mill. Same sort of short term thinking that disregards the creatures well being for the bottom line buck. Inhumane, irresponsible and in the rather small world of snake breeding I would think that sort of thing would earn you a just lovely bad reputation....bad reputation = little or no sales.

This is a world built on reputation as far as I can see. Without a solid reputation as a responsible breeder would I buy a het from you or an expensive morph....not on your life! Our hard earned money goes to the breeder who can be smart about the bottom line (or they are out of business fast) but also has a passion for the snake's he or she produces that will supercede short term, short cut methods.

~~Jo~~

[JLC]

This thread:


http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=28404

Has a really good discussion about the effects of over feeding and available evidence to back up various arguments on the subject. (Really, very little evidence either way...one must use some common sense judgement, in my opinion.)

[SnakeySnakeSnake]

As far as I've been told it's not particularily smart to power feed any snake (though quite a few will just fast when you try it so bit stupid to do it IMHO).


I'll wait to see what the experienced breeders have to say on the scientific evidence you seek.

To the issue of powerfeeding so that you artificially force early maturity on an animal specifically in order to breed earlier and if it causes your snake to have an unnaturally shortened life....may I just say two words...puppy mill. Same sort of short term thinking that disregards the creatures well being for the bottom line buck. Inhumane, irresponsible and in the rather small world of snake breeding I would think that sort of thing would earn you a just lovely bad reputation....bad reputation = little or no sales.

This is a world built on reputation as far as I can see. Without a solid reputation as a responsible breeder would I buy a het from you or an expensive morph....not on your life! Our hard earned money goes to the breeder who can be smart about the bottom line (or they are out of business fast) but also has a passion for the snake's he or she produces that will supercede short term, short cut methods.

~~Jo~~

Interesting... I didnt realize that it would force early maturity on a snake insomuch as just make it a safer size to reproduce... IE a snake may become fertile at... 2 years lets say, but it may not be of the right size to safely breed, so people feed it more.

As far as powerfeeding human kids.... I know I ate a TON more while I was growing than I do now that i am an adult. I was wondering if growing snakes are the same way....

[frankykeno]

Again, this is just my instincts here...remember I am not yet an experienced breeder but you asked about people over feeding specifically to get to adult size as fast as possible didn't you?

If you go by the 1,500 gram minimum weight being at least 500 grams per foot rule for a female snake and that the snake should be in her 3rd year for first breeding you'd be good right? Not always. From my discussions with experienced breeders even that is not a carved in stone rule of thumb. It's about the feel of the snake. I guess that has to come with hands on experience as nothing else will give you that ability to truly judge your female's readiness or fitness to breed in any given season. Even is she's big enough and old enough...she may just not be "right" enough.

However if you at least go by that general rule you are giving the female a decent chance to successfully breed and lay eggs with the minimum stress on her physically. Say you push the snake (if that's even possible really without triggering a fast) what are you saving in the long run. You breed a year early, roll the dice with that female (and females are precious!), you get maybe some good eggs if you are lucky, maybe a bunch of duds and slugs if you are not, maybe a snake that is eggbound, or just a female that isn't ready to mate so doesn't. You wasted her time and yours as you were cooling and trying to mate her when she could have been in her tub eating and growing instead.

Same with males...they are ready much younger and much smaller...a year old and 800 grams is I believe the rule of thumb. Younger you risk wearing out a young male even to the point of exhaustion and death so I've seen spoken of in other threads here. You might be able to breed a male younger, especially if you are an experienced breeder with that "eye"...but for me and Mike we will take the cautious route till we know what's what.

I do not know exactly how power or over feeding a snake effects sexual maturity specifically. What I do know is that being impatient and trying to get your snake big as fast as possible just in order to hit the 1,500 or 800 mark without regard for other factors, is likely another example of short term thinking IMHO.


~~Jo~~