Are my temps okay? And any tips on switching from f/t mice to f/t rats?

[Silktail]

https://i.imgur.com/1PrTKZ6.jpeg

My female lesser cinnamon is in a 4x2x2 pvc enclosure right now. She's still a baby at only ~22", unsure of weight as we don't have a kitchen scale yet (we know we're getting one as a christmas present so we couldn't run out and just get one right away ourselves).

There are sooooo many different recommended temps for BPs, so we have no idea if ours is right. On her warm side, ambient temp (all in F) is 88-91 and she has some basking temps that are 92-98. We have a CHE on her cold side since the temp drop would be too much without, and it gives her a basking spot of 80-82 over there. Where we're unsure is ground and hide temps. The ground is only like 76 and the inside of her warm hide is only like 72-74.

Her substrate is about 4-5" thick and a mix of cypress mulch, fir bark, and coco fiber. We are struggling a bit with humidity right now but that's mainly because the inside of our house is super dry. We dump water into the substrate plus mist thoroughly, but we just need to DIY a tighter fitting lid and find a place to plug in our house humidifier. Plus I'll find a good spot in her enclosure to pack some moss. We've tried humid hides with her and she never even goes near it.

Are her temps okay? We find her in several spots in her enclosure on both sides, hiding or basking, so we assume that means it's fine. Last 2 days she's been on her cold side more often.

Now onto food . . . We can't get her to eat a f/t rat unless it's been thawing with a mouse. We can do that, but we hate wasting mice and don't know how long we have to do that. We've tried weaning how much we scent it by rubbing it on dirty mouse bedding (luckily I work at a pet store and have ample access to all sorts of various rodent scented bedding ), and she wouldn't eat the rat. She hates braining/gutting, and will choose starve when we try eat or starve. Large mice go straight through her and you can't even see a lump after she eats. We couldn't try switching her earlier because we had no affordable access to appropriately sized rats for a few weeks as everywhere in person was sold out and online for a small amount had outrageous shipping cost. Any other tips, or just keep trying?

Other than these things, she's doing great. She's always had good sheds and she is extremely handleable. She never balls up when you lift her and nothing really frightens her . Thanks!

[Homebody]

From the forum's caresheet:

TEMPERATURE
~80F (ambient temps)
~90F (basking temps)
75 or below is unhealthy
Night drops in temps are not necessary or desired

Maintaining proper temperatures is essential to keeping your ball python healthy – failure to do so can lead to a host of issues from poor feeding to potentially lethal respiratory infections. For this reason you want to make sure you are able to measure the temperatures accurately. The sticker-type thermometers used in aquariums, and the little dials usually found in pet stores are routinely inaccurate and do little more than measure the temps of the glass to which they are adhered. Do yourself and your ball python a favor and invest in a digital thermometer. One of the most cost-effective and easily available is the Accu-Rite digital thermometer/hygrometer combo available at large stores such as Wal-Mart. These retail for less than $15 and include a probe making it possible to monitor the warm side and cool side temps as well as the humidity levels all simultaneously.

[nikkubus]

It seems like the overhead heat is having trouble penetrating some of the decorations in the enclosure if the ambient is that much higher than the ground. I would get UTH on warm side. If you have the substrate super thick, it may take a good long while to notice any change on the surface if at all so take it slow adjusting it and have a thermostat based on the bottom in case of burrowing.

As far as swapping from mice to rats, my best advice is to be patient. Refusing a meal multiple times might happen, but eventually most of them will take the rat when they are hungry enough. Without a picture, it's hard to know what kind of shape she is in, but usually they can go a few months with no issue by the time they are that length.

[EL-Ziggy]

There’s no need to weigh snakes! ��

If you’re using a UTH and a CHE that should be plenty of heat. I only use one heat source (RHP, CHE, or UTH) on each enclosure. A 4x2 isn’t that difficult to heat. I think your basking temps are a bit high at 92-98. I don’t keep any hot or basking spot over 90. As long as your snake has access to a warm spot the cool side temps shouldn’t cause any issues. My typical winter temp gradient is 72/84 with a natural nighttime drop to about 68/78. I keep boas, colubrids, and pythons in these same conditions.

As far as feeding goes it’s totally up to you on how to deal with her. I take an eat or starve approach with any healthy animal in my care. They might resist for months, or even a year, but my experience has shown that the hunger ALWAYS wins in the end. There’s really no need for a battle of attrition at this point though. If you’re already scenting the rats then go ahead and give her the mouse too. I have a carpet python that does the same thing. He doesn’t want to eat medium rats by themselves but he’ll take them when I thaw them out with mice. I usually give him the rats and give the mice to my other snakes as snacks. This last feeding I gave him both prey items. If I starve him for a month or two he’ll eat an unscented rat, then he’ll refuse the next one, and we start the process all over. I’ve learned that it’s no big deal if a small or medium sized snake stays on mice. At most you’ll just have to feed 2 mice per feeding instead of feeding one rat when they’re adults. I refuse to consistently feed them more than two prey items. For young BPs just feed the most mature prey item the snake can handle.

Lastly, even with just one snake, and with the average $30 flat shipping fee most online suppliers charge, it’s still cheaper than most pet store prices.

[Mr. Misha]

I love your enclosure! It looks great! Can you provide a photo of the top so we can see how it's heated?

I do agree with Ziggy that your temps seem a bit high. With that said, it depends on where you are measuring the heat. For example, i utalize RHPs and have my probes on the bottom of the terrarium. The thermostats are set around 82. That way I know that my BPs are enjoying warm temps where they are actually located. I'd recommend getting two thermometers and putting them on opposite sides of the enclosure. You'll see what the ambient temps really are on both sides.

I'd also recommend to go with a RHP and a good thermostat. It will make a huge world of difference in your humidity and ease of keeping.

Regarding food, i'd keep trying with the rats and mice bedding. It might take you a tad more time to switch over. I usually warm up my rats in hot water while the rat is in a plastic bag (to keep it dry). Make sure it's warm enough.

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[Hugsplox]

As far as feeding goes it’s totally up to you on how to deal with her. I take an eat or starve approach with any healthy animal in my care. They might resist for months, or even a year, but my experience has shown that the hunger ALWAYS wins in the end.

Lastly, even with just one snake, and with the average $30 flat shipping fee most online suppliers charge, it’s still cheaper than most pet store prices.

100% agree with Ziggy. The eat or starve approach has gotten me through several issues with my picky hognose snakes. As far as ordering feeders online, I've seen local pet stores both small and the larger ones charge anywhere between $4-$6 USD for a small rat, so even with a single snake overtime paying that $30 shipping fee is going to save you some money. Unless you luck out like I did and find a local rat breeder that will sell them to you stupid cheap it's going to be cheaper in the long run to order them online.