ball python underweight and not eating

[Scelery]

Sorry if this thread is long; this is my first snake! I got him about 2 months ago.

He's 18 inches
Weights 1.9oz (54g)
I have no idea how old he is.
The seller just told me that it's a baby male banana pastel.


During the day, he's climbing up along the walls trying to escape.
At night he sits inside his hide with his tiny head peeking out.


I rarely ever see him fully inside his hide. He either has his head peeking out or half his body out.
Even when he goes to sleep


When I first got him, he was extremely underweight. I made an appointment to take him to the vet three weeks ago. I was able to get him to eat 3 days before his appointment. He was still a little on the underweight side so they recommended that I try and feed him live In a separate tank, and after an hour, move him back into his tank?
But I heard that was stressful for a snake? So I'm not sure if I should do that or not.

I also don't have any pet stores by me that sell live feeders.
The seller I got him from fed him f/t, so that's what I feed him now.
I offer him fuzzies, but I only had success with pinkies


He has only eaten twice for me since I got him and It's been three weeks since he last ate.
Every time I try and feed him, he completely ignores the food and crawls up the tongs.
Sometimes he does show some interest, but he never eats it. He just goes back into his hide and peeks his head out

I almost got him to eat last week. It was the first time he struck and coiled for me, but he dropped the fuzzy and went back into his hide.


If anyone has advice on how I can get him to eat? Or if I need to change anything at all? Please let me know.
I just want him to be healthy and feel safe.


Another thing, I'm not sure if this is a good or a bad thing? But I never see him in a ball form. He's always just spread out


He's in a 36gallon enclosure.
I use UTH connected to a thermostat. I have it set to 95.7f
A ceramic heat emitter for the ambient temp.

Temp gun readings:
Hot side:93-90f
Warm side: 86-80f
Cold side: 77f

Ambient temp: 80-76f
Humidity:60-65°

I have a sheet over the top of the tank so he would feel more secure.
He has 5 hides
2 towards the hot side, one in the middle, and two on the cold side.
plus a cork bark log (not sure if it counts as a hide)



He looks really underweight to me, and I'm not sure if I should leave him completely alone for a week with his tank fully covered and then try and feed him?
Or take him to the vet to get him force-fed.
Force-feeding is the last thing I want to do, but I'm worried about his weight

[Snow Balls]

Sorry if this thread is long; this is my first snake! I got him about 2 months ago.

He's 18 inches
Weights 1.9oz (54g)
I have no idea how old he is.
The seller just told me that it's a baby male banana pastel.


During the day, he's climbing up along the walls trying to escape.
At night he sits inside his hide with his tiny head peeking out.


I rarely ever see him fully inside his hide. He either has his head peeking out or half his body out.
Even when he goes to sleep


When I first got him, he was extremely underweight. I made an appointment to take him to the vet three weeks ago. I was able to get him to eat 3 days before his appointment. He was still a little on the underweight side so they recommended that I try and feed him live In a separate tank, and after an hour, move him back into his tank?
But I heard that was stressful for a snake? So I'm not sure if I should do that or not.

I also don't have any pet stores by me that sell live feeders.
The seller I got him from fed him f/t, so that's what I feed him now.
I offer him fuzzies, but I only had success with pinkies


He has only eaten twice for me since I got him and It's been three weeks since he last ate.
Every time I try and feed him, he completely ignores the food and crawls up the tongs.
Sometimes he does show some interest, but he never eats it. He just goes back into his hide and peeks his head out

I almost got him to eat last week. It was the first time he struck and coiled for me, but he dropped the fuzzy and went back into his hide.


If anyone has advice on how I can get him to eat? Or if I need to change anything at all? Please let me know.
I just want him to be healthy and feel safe.


Another thing, I'm not sure if this is a good or a bad thing? But I never see him in a ball form. He's always just spread out


He's in a 36gallon enclosure.
I use UTH connected to a thermostat. I have it set to 95.7f
A ceramic heat emitter for the ambient temp.

Temp gun readings:
Hot side:93-90f
Warm side: 86-80f
Cold side: 77f

Ambient temp: 80-76f
Humidity:60-65°

I have a sheet over the top of the tank so he would feel more secure.
He has 5 hides
2 towards the hot side, one in the middle, and two on the cold side.
plus a cork bark log (not sure if it counts as a hide)



He looks really underweight to me, and I'm not sure if I should leave him completely alone for a week with his tank fully covered and then try and feed him?
Or take him to the vet to get him force-fed.
Force-feeding is the last thing I want to do, but I'm worried about his weight

If he is out and about during the day that could be a sign that he is stressed out. His hides look a little to big for such a small snake. Try getting a few of the small black reptile basics hides, they like really tight fit hides. Also do not feed him in a separate enclosure. This will do more harm than good. If you have to travel far to get a live feeder then do it, that snake is extremely under weight and needs to get eating regularly! A live mouse hopper should do the trick for him. You can also check Craigslist for local rat/mouse breeders. Your husbandry seems fine other than the hides as I mentioned. I think it’s a good idea to cover the tank and leave him be for the week and try again with a live mouse hopper, not frozen thawed


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[bcr229]

That snake is extremely underweight and I would have assist fed it already.

[Snow Balls]

That snake is extremely underweight and I would have assist fed it already.

Would you do that because of how thin the snake is or just because he hasn't eaten frequently? Even if he took a meal previously with his owner?

[Bogertophis]

I agree, this snake is dangerously underweight- but personally I'd tube-feed it, because I have lots of experience & success with that method & it's readily digestible for an underweight & dehydrated snake. -However, for you as a new owner to do that, it probably wouldn't go so well- this snake should really be in experienced hands, IMO.

From the photos, I doubt this snake can "handle" a live hopper mouse- I would stick with offering live fuzzies right now- if you feed too much, he won't be able to keep it down anyway. It will take a long time to actually put visible weight on this poor soul, so I hope you're very patient.

There's something wrong with anyone who'd sell a snake in this condition, & especially to a new snake owner!

I'd lower the heat by just a couple degrees- 93* IS too hot, & a high of 88* would be just fine. Remember that a snake's metabolism is governed by temperature- this snake is starving, & he's starving even faster higher temperatures, but it still needs to be warm enough for him to want to eat & to be able to digest. Therefore, a bit of moderation for the "high side" temp.- okay?

Trips to the vet at this point (unless the snake is truly sick) are likely to be counter-productive: it adds stress- which lowers his appetite & the chance of him eating. Even if the vet force-feeds him, there's a good chance he'll regurgitate by the time you get him home, due to vehicle motion, handling, + stress.

DO NOT feed in a separate container/cage- this adds stress & makes it less likely for a snake like this to eat. They eat where they feel safe & hidden, because predators can get them if they're out in the open & busy with a meal of their own.

Did you WARM the f/t prey right before offering? If so, how? This makes a huge difference for snakes like BPs that rely on their heat sensing pits to identify food. If you only tried f/t prey that wasn't warm, you might try again with better methods. Do you have feeding tongs? Did you feed in the evening, in a dimly-lit room? These things are important for success with most BPs.

Also- you want to be as un-noticeable as possible- the room should be quiet. BPs are ambush-predators- they're most likely to grab food in the evening, when peeking from a hide. If offering f/t from tongs, don't wiggle too much & don't approach the snake with it- that's intimidating & NOT what wild rodents do (they don't volunteer to be dinner, lol). You want to give a slight wiggle to the prey (not too much) & as if it's merely passing cluelessly near where the snake is watching- not approaching the snake. You want to see the snake pay attention, & hopefully follow it & feel brave enough to grab it. It would be ideal if you can get him to take f/t fuzzies for a while, to build him up. He can't possibly have much strength now, with as thin as he is in your photos.

[Bleh]

He's 18 inches
Weights 1.9oz (54g)
I have no idea how old he is.
The seller just told me that it's a baby male banana pastel.

I'm an amateur myself, you can be rest assured someone with more experience will be able to offer some great advice soon enough.

Have been building a very small collection for near 5 years (so far) and this season I have been successful with my first clutch.

54g for a young lad that is AT LEAST 2 months old does seem a bit small for me, but people more familiar with type of scenario may be able to offer reassurances for a snakelet of that age and that weight!

Did the breeder suggest how many feeds is had when with them?

Did you give the prey a good heat signature?

What weight is the prey? As a reference, my snakelets are on frozen thawed which are avg. 15g and they're just over two months old.

Check around the mouth for excess saliva, I.e. streaks in mouth when 'yawning' for example.

Listen for wheezing, but be careful to not mistake a whistle caused by previous shed left near the nostrils.

Wheezing and/or salivating suggests a respiratory infection and will need further treatment from the vet.

Is he toileting? You might expect some urate but not regular stools if he's not eating.

Not eating seems to become a habit for BP's and you need to do what is in his best interests. Its as if their feeding instinct had gone to sleep.

In the images, he does look a little thin for me but the fact he has struck and constricted suggests he wants to eat.

Something I had with one of mine was he couldn't find the head of the food once he'd finish constricting and seemed to give up on it so I started offering him food by holding the prey behind the head with the tongs, and tried to make sure there was a higher heater signature at the head end for him to target. I would lead the the head when offering food and this enabled him to strike the head and latch with greater success, and with it, successful feeds.

I've only force fed once and that was recently with a hatchling having rejected meals for a number of weeks after its first shed. There was just no interest in the prey, it was as if the snakelet didn't register... food!
And as reluctant as I was to force feed, I was uncomfortable to wait any longer considering all its siblings had eaten a number of times over the weeks.
But luckily for me, as soon as I had the fluffs head in the mouth and drew back a little to encourage a latch, instinct kicked in and they constricted, ate the food and has been smashing feeds every week since, so I was lucky with the success I had.

Hopefully I've offered few things that to consider from experiences that have helped me.

He looks like he'll be a lovely example once he behaves for you and stops putting you through your worries... for now!

[Bogertophis]

...During the day, he's climbing up along the walls trying to escape.
At night he sits inside his hide with his tiny head peeking out.

...When I first got him, he was extremely underweight. I made an appointment to take him to the vet three weeks ago. I was able to get him to eat 3 days before his appointment. He was still a little on the underweight side so they recommended that I try and feed him live In a separate tank, and after an hour, move him back into his tank?
But I heard that was stressful for a snake? So I'm not sure if I should do that or not.


....I almost got him to eat last week. It was the first time he struck and coiled for me, but he dropped the fuzzy and went back into his hide.




He looks really underweight to me, and I'm not sure if I should leave him completely alone for a week with his tank fully covered and then try and feed him?
Or take him to the vet to get him force-fed.
Force-feeding is the last thing I want to do, but I'm worried about his weight

Okay, a few more things here:

New snakes are frightened & confused- it's normal for them to "climb the walls" for a while- they're trying to find their "home"- the place they knew before & felt safe. What you describe for him at night is what you want to see & THAT'S when you should be offering him prey. That's what a hungry BP does- they hunt by laying in wait (peeking from a hide is perfect!)- BPs are "ambush" predators!

Your vet doesn't sound experienced with snakes to me, no offense, judging by the advice they gave you (to feed in a side cage) & apparently they weren't very concerned about how thin this snake is? He's not a "little underweight", he's a LOT underweight. If you need to find an experienced herp vet near you, this site might help: https://arav.site-ym.com/search/custom.asp?id=3661

When he struck & coiled prey last week, but got too shy to feed & left the prey, you should have quickly re-warmed the prey (try a blow dryer), then re-offered just at the doorway to his hide, & if he didn't take it from your tongs, then leave it there (at the doorway), turn out the lights & don't check again until morning. He might have eaten it overnight- often a snake that coils the prey & then feels too conspicuous IS going to eat...ONCE you stop hovering. Remember that for now, YOU appear to be a big scary potential predator that's watching him eat! That's why you need to stay out of his way- so he can relax & eat. Remember, dark room! (dim the lights- BPs are nocturnal predators)

I do HOPE you're not handling this snake at all? You should not handle new snakes (even those with healthy weight) until they feed at LEAST 3 times easily for you, with no refusals (unless in shed, then it's normal to refuse food). This snake need privacy & "TLC"- & some measure of luck if he's going to survive & thrive. I wouldn't plan on any un-essential handling of this snake for a very LONG time- he needs to focus on eating & digestion/rest, with minimal stress.

Since he has been willing to take prey items, you should not have to "force-feed" this snake. This seems like just feeding skills you need to work on- & the fact that you got a snake in such poor condition to begin with as a new inexperienced owner.

If & when you get him eating (fuzzies or?), try to feed him about every 5 days if you can. Frequent small easy-to-digest meals are what he needs now, & for quite some time to come. Not too much at once, easy does it- he needs to keep it down. Treat him like a person in the ICU (in hospital) while he gains strength & body weight- rest & food, no handling- low-key environment.

BTW

[Scelery]

I do use a long feeding tong and I feed him at night. I put the fuzzy in a plastic bag and leave them in lukewarm water for 15mins. I always check to make sure it's completely thawed out before I offer it to him.
If the prey is cold I do heat it using a hairdryer making sure it is warm


I got this little guy off a website (I forgot the name, I'm sorry) The pictures the he showed me were of a healthy ball, but when he arrived he was basically the same weight as he is now. It makes me extremely upset knowing he's this underweight.
I'm just happy he survived the shipping process.


Thank you so much for your advice! And thank you for being so nice I appreciate it. I will lower the heat and try and wiggle the prey less
I'll also do some research on different feeding methods and how to do it properly in hopes that he will eat for me

Thank you again

[Bogertophis]

I do use a long feeding tong and I feed him at night. I put the fuzzy in a plastic bag and leave them in lukewarm water for 15mins. I always check to make sure it's completely thawed out before I offer it to him.
If the prey is cold I do heat it using a hairdryer making sure it is warm


I got this little guy off a website (I forgot the name, I'm sorry) The pictures the he showed me were of a healthy ball, but when he arrived he was basically the same weight as he is now. It makes me extremely upset knowing he's this underweight.
I'm just happy he survived the shipping process.


Thank you so much for your advice! And thank you for being so nice I appreciate it. I will lower the heat and try and wiggle the prey less
I'll also do some research on different feeding methods and how to do it properly in hopes that he will eat for me

Thank you again

I thaw rodents in water- cool water first, then very warm (not hot or boiling) briefly to warm them so they're more "lifelike". BUT, water washes off a lot of the rodent's scent- you can pinch-damage the rodent's nose with your tongs to release a little more scent- it may help your snake hit the "target" better, but most BPs need the prey to be very warm- glad you know about using a blow dryer.

Sounds to me like the seller showed you early photos when this snake was a hatchling (with decent body weight) but at 18" long, he's likely a year old, not a hatchling, & it's obvious they didn't update their photo, or you wouldn't have bought him. That's very deceptive, to say the least, & obviously they barely fed him- what some call "maintenance feeding" (just enough to keep the snake alive but not well-fed). I don't agree with this practice at all, & either way, he shouldn't look like this!

I wish you luck- this is an unfortunate way to start off with a new snake. Do keep us posted- we'll help you all that we can.

[Bogertophis]

Quick afterthought: If you can get this snake to eat prey consistently, I'd avoid weighing him for a while, in case the handling puts him off eating. Trust me, I know how badly you want to see him gain weight, but it's not worth the risk of having him stop eating, & you won't see much of a real* weight gain for a while anyway. *You'll be fooled by water weight gain (when he drinks) or loss, when he defecates; baby mice don't quickly put weight on a snake, but if you can keep him eating- even small stuff- let that be your reward & sustain you for a while.